<p>My daughter recently took the SAT and received a 2330, 800 CR, 770 M, 760 W, and has a 34 ACT score (36 science, 36 writing). She also has taken 2 AP's - Calculus BC 5, US History 5, and is an IB diploma candidate. She is also a 4 pt. student. She feels like standardized tests have taken over her life, and does not want to take any SAT II's, since she has done so well on all her other tests. The only schools she is considering applying to either accept SAT + 2 SAT II's or the ACT, or just recommend the SAT II's. Since her ACT is good, she is opting not to take the SAT II's.</p>
<p>Her EC's are average, and I was wondering if anyone has had experience with getting into very selective colleges without taking the SAT II's, even when they are recommended.</p>
<p>Consider this as logical: if the school is "very selective" then assume recommended = required. She shouldn't lose her momentum over this. Just take tests in her strong subjects so she'll be able to compete for her reach colleges.</p>
<p>She can sleep a different week. She shouldn't be sabotaging herself. after all her effort, over one morning of one-hour tests. I hate to see kids trip themselves at the near-finish line. Sometimes I used this line, "I'm your parent so it's my job to see around corners, and as smart as you are, you are missing it on this point. Trust me just this time. "</p>
<p>I assume that the schools say "recommended" only so that if someone has not had the resources or background coaching to know to take them, the school can nonetheless admit them. It lets them make an exception. </p>
<p>But why should they for your daughter? For a student so well supported, educationally, as to have a parent on CC, I feel she has no excuse not to take SAT-II's.</p>
<p>While colleges say they'll accept the ACT in place of SAT/SAT II's, I find it hard to believe that there isn't some subconscious preference for a student who demonstrates willingness to take the additional recommendations to heart over a student who skates by on one test. She ought to take the SAT II's; they can only help her in the long run, and she might regret her decision to forgo them someday..</p>
<p>That is what I recommended, but she is stubborn. She would probably do Math and Biology, since that is her intended major, both classes she will continue for Higher Level IB next year. </p>
<p>Do college see their AP scores and recognize those instead of the SAT II's???</p>
<p>They'll see her AP scores, but they probably won't consider them instead of SAT II's. The best solution is just to take some SAT subject tests - she can take up to 3 of them in one sitting, and if she has already done well on AP tests in certain subjects, I don't see why she can't give up one Saturday morning for the sake of better chances to get into college.</p>
<p>Ultimately, it's her decision, but you should make sure she understands the impact of her decision if she chooses not to take any SAT II's. One day of testing is not asking much, and she might regret it one day.</p>
<p>Thank you. This will give me ammunition to begin the conversation. I don't think she can take them until Oct., but I will do my best to get her to sign up for the tests.</p>
<p>"You have already worked so hard and accomplished so much, why sacrifice all that when there is so little left"</p>
<p>She would be doing herself a grave injustice to not take at least 2 of those tests. There easy, I did 2 in one day and no prep. It honestly doesn't matter how well she does (she is smart), as long as she takes them.</p>
<p>Hmmm. Contrary opinion here. The schools say ACT is good enough. Accept that once and for all! Do you really think all those kids out in Iowa where the ACT exam is based bother to take a single SAT exam unless it is to qualify for National Merit Scholarships? Well, most of them don't. They mail their ACT scores in and call it done. And guess what? They get into colleges and universities all over the country just like kids from the coasts.</p>
<p>You need to listen to your kid. Maybe she really is sick and tired and sick and tired and sick and tired of taking standardized tests. Maybe someone has put her on to the fact that a number of very fine educational institutions have gone exam free or exam optional - maybe she's even got The</a> National Center for Fair & Open Testing | FairTest bookmarked on her computer. Maybe it would be OK for her to have a life.</p>
<p>Taking the SAT IIs won't get one single more car into the cemetery at her funeral (or at yours for that matter). Having a life - a real life outside of the college application process - just might.</p>
<p>In October, she should just review classnotes and maybe get a review book to refresh her memory. Don't just walk cold into the test, in other words.</p>
<p>That review should be no big deal for a good student when she's already taken the course, AP tests, final exams already.</p>
<p>She doesn't need to. Her IB Diploma, AP scores (which I'm assuming she took the initiative with herself), will reflect her well. And her SAT I score supports her also.</p>
<p>Ok. Now we are seeing the opposite opinion. I do think schools should be able to see that she is bright and capable with all the other information. I have not pushed her too hard to take them because I know she HATES taking all these tests, even though she does well, even without prepping for them. I think I will see what her essays and apps show, and may encourage her to consider taking them for the extra boost. At least October is not May and June, when she took the ACT, SAT, AP and IB tests. It becomes a bit much in the spring.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Bright daughter won't take SAT II's</p>
<p>Her EC's are average, and I was wondering if anyone has had experience with getting into very selective colleges without taking the SAT II's, even when they are recommended.
[/quote]
3 words for you -- fear of failure Not of the SAT II's; she'll blast thru those. What she knows/fears is that with her average ECs, there's lots of other kids just as bright who are competing with her for admission. Kids that are bright AND have strong ECs.</p>
<p>So daughter faces a choice (mind you, this is probably all subconscious) : [ol] [<em>]Scenario I: She takes the SAT II tests, breeze thru them, and applies [</em>]Scenario II: she applies without them. [/ol] If she gets rejected (which at the top schools is always a very real possibility, perhaps even more likely with average ECs) how does she explain it? With scenario I, she gave it her best shot. It's personal. Nothing more she could have done at this point. Its a judgment of not just her aptitude (as high as anyone's) but of what else she could have done, and those passed-over EC opportunities are going to haunt her.</p>
<p>Scenario II, though, comes with a built-in defense. Mom & Dad were right! She should have taken those pesky SAT II tests! She was fooled by the app that said "recommended" instead of "required". Had she known it would have made a difference, of course she would have taken them!! And maybe/probably when they saw her great scores she would have gotten in. It was an unfortunate decision not to take them, but the rejection is no real reflection on her; its really the fault of those people who didn't make clear the SAT II tests were needed. Had they seen the "real" her (SAT II test included), why, she probably would have got in.</p>
<p>IMHO the argument you are having has nothing to do with taking standardized tests. It has to do with ego defenses. And your odds of changing her mind on this are about as good as anyone's in getting their kid to say "yeah, maybe the other kids ARE better based on how colleges evaluate apps".</p>
<p>She's clearly smart enough not to need to study for Math IIC, US History and Literature, and possibly many other Subject Tests as well. I would predict scores of at least 750 on each without studying for her, and possible 800s. I never studied for the Subject Tests and got 2 800s and a 750 - I'm significantly less smart than your daughter. Smack her good and make her take them. Take her out to a nice restaurant for lunch as a reward.</p>