Brown Open Core vs Columbia Core

Colleges and Universities A-Z Brown University
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<p>In response to the last few posts, RenaissanceMom’s son is one example, albeit in the context of UChicago rather than Columbia. </p>

<p>The Columbia Core consists of courses in four areas (this is a shorthand description): language, literature, science, and international culture. My imagination has many Brown students taking courses in most or not all of these areas…maybe not exclusively during first-year, but at some point in their Brown career. I am not going to bet the life of me, but it sure wouldn’t give me a heart attack to be informed that many Brown students could find happiness with this.</p>

<p>Granted, not all 1500+ Brown students are taking the same language, literature, science and international culture courses at the same time, so the ability to discuss classroom material with the entire class is not available. </p>

<p>When I talk to students who are interested in a Core school such as Columbia or Chicago…plus Brown…I always mention this point. And it seems to resonate. Who does it resonate with?</p>

<p>The student who likes the subject matter of the Columbia Core, but feels much more comfortable on the Brown campus than in NYC. The student who likes the subject matter of the Chicago Core, except for maybe one course, and is not sure if Hyde Park is right. The student who likes the subject matter of the Columbia or Chicago Core but wants the freedom and responsibility to take the courses at his/her own pace.</p>

<p>If any alumni or interviewers out there are writing off applicants who have also applied to Columbia or Chicago, I think you are making a big mistake. Brown’s tent is big enough to efficaciously cover applicants who would like to study the subjects that happen to comprise the Columbia or Chicago cores.</p>

<p>The beauty (and challenge) of the Open Curriculum is that it gives Brown students freedom and responsibility for their own education…including the freedom to select courses outside their concentration which might happen to replicate the Columbia or Chicago core. </p>

<p>I think this is a selling point for Brown. If a student says this is what they would like to do if they are admitted, I do not say “Who the heck would do that”, or “For the life of me I can not understand why you would want to do that”. </p>

<p>How not Brown that would be.</p>

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<p>@skieurope But let’s say I like all of Columbia’s core classes/requirements, I could manufacture the same effect at Brown as well (to some degree, maybe not 100% but quite closely)? So I would be a good fit for BOTH those schools, in that regard, even though they are quite opposite when it comes to core/no core?</p>

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<p>Exactly, @lb43823!</p>

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<p>@arwarw‌ @fireandrain‌ @RenaissanceMom‌ do you agree as well? I know there was some other opinions on this thread, but can I make this generalization?</p>

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<p>If what appeals to you about the core is the subject matter then yes, you absolutely can replicate it at Brown. If what appeals to you about the core is the idea of having a prescribed learning track or the idea of all freshman taking the same classes together then no, you can’t replicate that at Brown.</p>

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<p>Here’s how Columbia describes the Core: (<a href=“The Core Curriculum”>http://www.college.columbia.edu/core/&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>“The Core Curriculum is the set of common courses required of all undergraduates and considered the necessary general education for students, irrespective of their choice in major. The communal learning–with all students encountering the same texts and issues at the same time–and the critical dialogue experienced in small seminars are the distinctive features of the Core.”</p>

<p>You will never get that at Brown. </p>

<p>Then, look at the descriptions of the six classes. I honestly don’t think Brown offers classes that replicate all of those.</p>

<p>Now, let’s look at UChicago: “Not only does the curriculum provide the background for any major and for continuing study after graduation, it also provides a common experience for all students in the College. All students have taken the same sorts of classes and read the same kinds of texts, struggling and triumphing over the same sorts of ideas. This gives every student a common vocabulary of ideas and skills, no matter his or her background before coming to the College.”</p>

<p>Same thing – not an experience you will have at Brown.</p>

<p>If you view a “core curriculum” as taking classes in science, math, literature, social sciences, foreign language, art/music, then of course you can create your own core curriculum at Brown. But that is not what Columbia or Chicago’s core is. Read their web pages. It is a whole philosophy of education which is consummated in a group of very specifically designed classes. Brown’s philosophy of education is totally different. </p>

<p>I am not “writing off” students who apply to both. As I said earlier, there are many reasons for selecting colleges. Location, size, cost, majors, etc. Educational philosophy is just one criteria, and if it isn’t important to you, and you can be happy with 1/3 of your classes being proscribed or happy with having no requirements, then sure, apply to both. Just be aware that your academic experience will be vastly different. And it is very very easy to figure out how your experience will be vastly different.</p>

<p>(And if you are an engineering student, then it’s a different situation.)</p>

<p>So, lb43823, no I don’t agree with your statement in post #21. </p>

<p>I want to make it very clear that I don’t think Brown’s or Columbia/Chicago’s philosophy is better. They are just different. Step one for me would be reading the extensive descriptions of the classes on the Columbia website. If all the classes excite you and interest you, then all is good. But if there are dozens of other classes that you won’t be taking because of these required classes, and that bothers you, think twice.</p>

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<p>@Ib43823, no, I really don’t think you could manufacture the same effect of the Columbia Core at Brown.
I think the educational philosophy (particularly at Brown) ripples through all aspects of campus life including who applies, what type of students are selected, which professors want to work there, who they hire, how they teach, how student groups function etc, etc… The entire experience.</p>

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<p>Lol, I think you’re all right. My son didn’t care whether he was taking the same subject matter at the same time…he just wanted to take classes in similar disciplines and has been able to do that. He recognized that the freshmen and sophomores weren’t going to be on the same page, and that wasn’t at all important to him. Also, he felt that he had the “core” experience at his private NYC high school where there are two required courses that all 11th & 12th graders take and that cover many of the same primary texts covered at Columbia. (His school didn’t have APs…it’s known for these two courses in particular). In fact, one turn off for him re: Columbia was that recent alumni from his high school that returned for homecoming were disappointed with their columbia first-year core classes bc they thought the books were covered better at their high school, and that the discussion was more intense. It felt like a rehash to them, and not a good one.</p>

<p>The primary element that attracted him to both brown and uchicago is the student body/culture. That’s what these schools shared above all, at least for him. He felt that compared to other schools he considered, these schools had kids who were engaged in learning for the sake of learning. Who were truly, deeply intellectual and creative. And he’s certainly found that to be true in his now nearly four-year experience at brown. He graduates in may and will dearly miss this environment. His two best friends in high school attend Chicago and also feel the same.</p>

<p>Younger son discovered that student body/culture also trumped all for him. He was going to apply ED to JHU last year as a writing seminars major, but did an overnight visit the week before the app was due. The app was already done…it was just a matter of hitting the submit button after the visit. The visit couldn’t have gone more badly. Two kids in the hall told him they were sorry they chose the school bc as humanities majors they felt like second class citizens. The Eng majors referred to those in arts and sciences as being in the school of arts and crafts. He sat in on 2 writing workshops and no one said a word. In one class, when the prof pointedly asked them a question that no one responded to, he got so irate he dismissed the class 10 mins early and spoke to my son, telling him he hoped he’d still apply bc the program is one of the leading creative writing programs in the country. He still applied, but wouldn’t commit to the ED, and it fell way down his list. On our way home he said if those kids were his classmates, he’d be pissed. He told me that what that experience made him realize is that what was most important to him, above all else, is what type of students does the school attract…does it have a culture of intellectual & creative energy and one where the humanities and the stem ppl respect each other and even cross-over. So, in the end, both of my kids were looking for the same type of student body/culture/ethos and that ruled their choices. For someone else, it might be a very structured core that floats their boat.</p>

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<p>@fireandrain‌ </p>

<p>Your insight was so much appreciated, thanks a lot. I really feel like you summed up this post. Just one last thing, how is it different from engineering majors? Fu Foundation SEAS.</p>

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<p>I knew I’d have to answer that. </p>

<p>To get an ScB in engineering at Brown means taking 20+ classes. In the first year and even into 2nd year, engin students take the same classes. It is almost like Columbia’s core, except in engineering. Frequently 3 of the 4 classes that engin students take each semester are required. That leaves one class a semester to experiment, explore, etc. That makes it hard to take full advantage of the open curriculum. </p>

<p>I quickly looked up engin at Columbia. They seem to have a reduced number of required Core classes. So their experience must be different than other Columbia students. </p>

<p>I have no idea how getting an ScB at Brown vs. Columbia in other disciplines compares. I’ll let someone else do the research on that. </p>

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<p>@fireandrain If you finish the core classes at Columbia SEAS, you can talk any other class you want?</p>

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<p>No idea. I went to Brown, not Columbia, and got my info from its website. </p>