DD has been frustrated for 2 weeks about her college selection. She’s very fortunate to be admitted to Brown and Duke, two fantastic colleges. But she doesn’t know how to choose, so do we as parents.
We are not qualified for FA for both colleges, so cost difference is not a concern.
Duke:
Pro
Rank slightly higher; better campus; better weather and better sports. Well ranked medical school right at campus. Well known for good pre-med program.
Con
Heard of steep “weed-out” for pre-med. Campus safety? Heard Durham is another New Haven? Not an Ivy - I know it’s comparable to Ivy (Ivy-plus/Ivy-like?), but it may be better not to add anything after the word Ivy.
Brown
Pro
It’s an Ivy, nothing to add after. Well known GPA inflation may help her in medical school application? An easier, lay-back and happier college experience? Safer campus? I like the feel of mid city in Providence.
Con
Ranked lower. Cold winter. Too liberal? What’s her options if she changes her mind away from pre-med?
BTW, maybe not too important - DD is a musician. She was a winner of YoungArts. Which college has better orchestra experience?
Thanks in advance for your feedback!
How is your budget for a full 8 years? Can you afford to pay for 8 years when the last four years are particularly expensive (figure $80,000 per year currently, plus 5% per year inflation)? How much debt would be needed for the full 8 years?
Premed classes are going to be very tough at any “top 200” university or college. “Steep weed-out” is normal. “Laid back” and “premed” do not go together. I would expect any premed student to be fully committed to what it is going to take to get into medical school. IMHO playing in an orchestra is not compatible with this.
Both daughters have or had majors that overlap with premed classes (one starts a DVM program in September) and so I have heard many stories, for example of classes full of very strong students where the class average on the first mid-term was in the 40’s.
University rankings do not matter for medical school admissions, at least not at anything resembling the level of schools you are looking at. Grades matter. Experience working in a medical environment matter.
One thing to think about is which university would be a better fit if the premed thing does not work out.
1 Like
The fact that Duke is not an Ivy League school is of no significance. Medical schools don’t care whether you graduate from Duke, Brown, or your instate public school. Your daughter will need top grades, top scores, various volunteering and shadowing experiences, etc. These opportunities can be found at many schools, and students often do shadowing etc when they are home for breaks, or during a gap year. It is very common to take time off between undergrad and medical school.
What is your budget? How will you be paying for medical school? Can you afford to pay for 8 years of school (this will be over $700,000) or would you prefer to save some money from undergrad to put toward medical school, thereby lessening the loans?
I would choose the school she likes in the event she changes her mind about applying to medical school (this is common). I would also keep a budget in mind and consider where she will thrive, just in case she applies.
1 Like
Med schools aren’t going to care a hoot about the name between those schools. What’s her Plan B if she doesn’t make it in? Most students don’t make it in, so all need a Plan B. Plan B can easily be dropped if she does make it in. It’s not easy to come up with later if things don’t work out. Does either school fit that better or does she like one better than another for any reason (flip a coin, which one is she hoping lands face up)?
Choose that one.
There is no such thing as “easy pre-med.” If med schools even caught wind that an applicant were looking for “easy” they wouldn’t want them. They want the student who can take on “hard,” do well anyway, and enjoy themselves in the process (via EC’s, etc).
Thanks for all the relies. We understand the cost of medical school and are willing to pay for it without loan. We also understand the key requirements of medical school admission: GPA, MCAT and ECs. Our question is, of the two great schools, which one may have a slight edge on the med school application and better college experiences. Alma mater will stay with DD for the rest of her life, we would like to have a better choice, considering the high price that we are going to pay.
Thanks again for the feedback in advance.
Since they’re both great schools it comes down to fit because they’re very different in that arena: sports, campus, weather, political leanings, Greek emphasis, student body vibe.
Of the kids I’ve known at each school, I really couldn’t picture most of them at the other school. They’re just too different apart from academics.
1 Like
Neither for the first answer and Duke/Brown alum will each say their own school for the second. Most college students love the school they go to if they get involved there and it’s the proper level of academic challenge for them - which one it is doesn’t really matter IME.
If there’s a slight edge, pre-meds/med students I’ve talked with liked having a hospital on or very near campus IF they get involved there. The reason is simple - it’s easier to get there than going across town or scheduling everything over breaks or the summer.
Is she drawn to one more than the other?
I agree these schools are different enough that she must have a preference? What is she planning to major in? That will dictate her plan B more so than which school she is at.
Regarding orchestra…I am not sure that fits with a pre-med who has to get primarily As and also have hundreds (if not thousands) of hours volunteer/working in patient facing roles.
1 Like
This is my view also. I suppose we could say “fit and opportunities to get experience in a medical environment”.
I would not personally be worried about the winters in Rhode Island. We are from a bit to the north of Providence and you get used to the winters quite quickly.
I think that it would be hard to go wrong with either school, which is perhaps why the choice is so difficult.
1 Like
Neither school is going to give her an edge over the other, as far as medical school is concerned. Students attend their local state schools all the time and get admitted to medical school. It’s not the school- it’s your grades and what you do when you are there.
She will need shadowing and different volunteering experiences. A hospital on campus is beneficial if students are permitted to shadow and volunteer (some don’t allow, some limit the hours, others do allow etc). It’s also helpful to learn what opportunities are available in the local community. Are there organizations that help the homeless etc? She needs to volunteer.
Brown offers an open curriculum and allows students to take a significant number of their classes as P/NP which will help protect your child’s GPA if they want to take coursework that’s outside their “comfort zone”. (Med schools don’t accept N/NP or P/F grading for pre-reqs so your child can’t P/NP those classes, but she can P/NP just about everything else. )
As others have said, the name on the diploma means very little to med school admission offices.
Your child should pick the school that she feels offers the best fit. The campus cultures at Brown and Duke are quite different.
Re: winter weather in Providence… she only has to deal with the weather for 4 years, then she can move elsewhere. (It’s what I told my raised-in-the-sunny-Southwest kiddo who went to undergrad in a northern city where the sun doesn’t shine most of the winter, huge snowstorms are the norm and the student health office lends out full spectrum lights to students to prevent SAD. My other raised-in-the-sunny-Southwest kiddo spent 4 years in New Haven. They both survived…)
This. The bottom line is that those 2 schools have very different campus cultures. Yes, she could “find her people” at either of them- but almost certainly one of them is naturally a better fit for her.
The best best best thing you can do for your daughter now is to say something to the effect of “WELL DONE. You have worked hard and gotten places at two great schools. There is no ‘wrong’ or ‘better’ choice, so choose the one that feels best, the most like your place. We will be thrilled with either choice, and if it doesn’t work out as well as we all hope and expect it is not the end of the world - transfers exist for a reason. But this is your time to spread your wings and trust yourself. We trust you.”
And then really trust her.
Like so many parents and students right now you are trying to find an objective reason to choose one over the other. Objectively, neither is unambiguously a “better” choice than the other.
And yes, thanks to limits on travel & visits, the choice is being made with imperfect and incomplete and contradictory information- but even with multiple visits, the decision has to be based on imperfect and contradictory information. You (should) know this as adults- because most adult decisions are like that.
1 Like