Brown or Stanford? Safe or Sorry?

If you apply ED to Brown and get in you it sounds to me like you will have some regret about never seeing if you could have gotten in to Stanford. ED should not be viewed as “well, I’ll apply because its easier to get into the school that way” because schools like Brown are still crazy hard to get into any way you apply. MO ED should only be used if there is one school that stands above the others in terms of where you want to go. And it sounds like that school for you is Stanford.

This is, again, from a misinterpretation of acceptance rates as acceptance probabilities. Just because the acceptance rate at Stanford is 5% doesn’t mean that an individual applicant has a 5% probability of acceptance. It simply means that out of the 25,000+ people who applied to Stanford, only 5% of them were admitted. In fact, not all applicants have the same probability. That double-legacy Native American crew recruit with the 4.0 who also plays the violin at Carnegie Hall every year and by the way cured the common cold probably has an acceptance rate much closer to 100% than a student from an unremarkable high school with a 2.0 and no extracurriculars who can’t rub two words together. More importantly, though, it’s impossible to predict numerical probabilities of acceptance because applications are evaluated holistically in comparison to the other applicants.

Similarly, just because the early decision acceptance rate is overall higher than the regular decision acceptance rate at Brown (or anywhere) doesn’t mean that early decision gives any particular applicant better chances. In fact, Brown explicitly says this on their website:

Please do not assume that your admission chances are improved by applying under the Early Decision plan. The Board of Admission makes the same decisions under Early Decision that it would under the Regular Decision plan. We offer Early Decision as an opportunity for students who are ready to commit and would like early notification of their admission status.

The higher acceptance rate under ED is most likely because of the self-selecting nature of the typical ED applicant, and/or because so many of them are going through alternative processes like being a recruited athlete. What reason would Brown have to lie about their own admission process?

Wow great point made, I really didn’t think about it that way…that’s really helpful haha thanks! @juillet‌

@juillet
From what I have seen very few people with 2.0 GPAs actually apply to elite universities.

@ OP I want to point something else out. if you apply to Stanford ED and get rejected, then apply to Brown RD and get rejected, you will be very upset. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. If you are really looking to maximize your application then apply to Brown ED.

Agree with #15 above. You are high reach for either school, so you might as well take the shot at the one you would be happy with, Stanford. If you really think you can prove your CS chops through your essay, I think you’re a bit full of it.

@juillet I’d go even further to say that URM, first gen and unconnected students who are competitive have BETTER odds during RD than ED, at least at the ivies and a select few others.

@bomerr Well yes, I was deliberately using two extremes to make a point. The other student doesn’t exist, either.

The assumption with this is that Brown ED is a bird in the bush, which it very certainly is not. I think OP would be just as upset if s/he got rejected from Brown ED and then got rejected from Stanford RD. Let’s remember that Brown is nearly as competitive as Stanford is.

One could also argue that if OP got accepted to Brown ED, OP might always wonder whether s/he could’ve gotten accepted to Stanford had she applied ED (or RD, for that matter).

Personally, I don’t see why she shouldn’t apply to both of them regular decision, and this is one of the reasons I strongly dislike the Early Decision paradigm in general. It overwhelmingly benefits the colleges and has very little benefit for the students, as far as I can see. But at least if you are going to do ED, it should be to that DREAM school.

@juillet
Nah I don’t think Brown ED is as secure as bird in the bush, just that it does make the applicant ever so slightly more competitive. Increased chance at one school is better than not at another.

A lot of people said that in this thread. It’s a logical conclusion. At the same time a person who is making an educated decision can easily justify that trade-off as a worthwhile.

I would say there is too much variably in college admissions and for that reason an applicant should do everything they can to maximize their chances of admission. If the OP would be happy at brown (even if it isn’t their dream school) then they should try their best to get accepted.

Since Brown is apparently not your first choice, don’t apply there ED.

Be sure that you have an actual affordable safety, since neither Stanford nor Brown is anything close to a sure thing.

Just another reason why I dislike it when schools offer the ED option.

I would say study more for your SAT or ACT to increase your chances at either. Honestly, your scores are great but not great for those elite schools. You should aim for 2200 or above. This is the same advise I would give my own chils. With higher scores, you increase your chance of admission at both.

@aviator9997 - If you feel that the ties you have to the computer science department give you an advantage at Brown (I think it’s possible you are mistaken), then I suggest you apply there. I say that only because both schools are incredibly difficult to get into, a reach for ANYONE, and for you, I say a high reach. Based on what you’ve told us, I see you being denied at both schools. More often than not, when someone says they are looking for a certain SAT score, they do worse than they hoped for. You haven’t taken it yet and said “around 2200”. That to me means perhaps in the 2100s, and since you don’t have that score in hand yet, I see 2050-2110 or so; just based on what I’ve seen from other students who predict a certain score. With that kind of SAT, for either school, you have to have a standout second thing – athlete, amazing musician, something. Don’t mean to be harsh, just realistic. I know a guy who was a National Merit Finalist with straight As all through high school who got denied at Stanford, and he’s hardly alone. Good luck to you, but please also find some match and safety schools.

@stepay well i usually get 2240-2170 and on the PSAT i just took I got a 221 which is National Merit

@aviator9997 - Ok. We have more info! I would agree then that 2200 is a good target for you, and National Merit Finalist is a good thing if that happens…hasn’t happened yet (I assume you are a junior, so you won’t find out until the fall if you are a Finalist or a Commended Scholar or neither). 221 gives you a great chance, but depending on the state you’re in, you may or may not make the cut as a Finalist. See the 2014 qualifying scores (tests taken in 2013) for each state here - http://www.studypoint.com/ed/national-merit-scores - at my count, 6 states required a 221 or higher, and who knows what it will be for next year.

Anyway, please don’t even entertain the idea that you will likely get into one of them. Those schools are a reach for EVERYONE. You have a good chance, but definitely not a slam dunk. Again, I think it is important for you to find some excellent safety schools if Stanford or Brown don’t work out. I still think your GPA (you said you got a lot of Bs before your junior year) could be an issue. As I said earlier, the guy I know who got rejected at Stanford was a straight A student and a National Merit Finalist with an SAT higher than your upper range. I know they look at a lot of things, and maybe you will have that one thing they want, but there for sure will be people rejected from Stanford and Brown with better GPA and test scores than you. Good luck!

appreciate it :slight_smile: Thanks @stepay‌