Thank you for taking the time out of your day to read this! The date to commit to college is a week away and I still have no idea which college to pick. I was very fortunate to be accepted into both Brown and uPenn, and don’t know which one to pick. For some context, I applied as a chemistry major on the pre-med track, and I’m from NYC. I visited both campuses and loved both so I’m very conflicted.
Coming from NYC, Philly will be an easy adjustment, as it’s just a mini version of home. uPenn consistently ranks within the top 10 US colleges and has very strong pre-professional programs. Also it’s the “social ivy” where there are a lot of parties that I’m interested in, and there are more connections to be made at Penn. Lastly, Penn does have 2 hospitals on campus, (but I heard undergrads don’t really spend their time in hospitals). The only issue I have with uPenn is that it appears to be much more competitive than Brown. I came from one of NYC’s best high schools and it was pretty competitive so I don’t know if I want my undergrad to be cutthroat. Additionally, my annual tuition is $29K, which is 8K more than Brown, and I felt the campus was a bit lackluster (has really pretty architecture, but has limited green spaces).
On the other hand, I loved Brown’s campus and its vibe. Brown felt like a community, where everyone builds each other up that I adored. Brown does have an open curriculum and allows us to pass/fail courses if we choose. It appears to be much less stressful and more relaxing, and I think I’ll be happier there overall. Brown is ranked as a top 15 school, but does have some of the best professors. The downsides to brown are that the winters can be brutal, the party scene is mediocre, and I’m not sure if I’ll like the small city life. Brown is also the furthest from home but is cheaper.
If anyone can provide any insight about these schools and which school you think I should pick, I’l love to hear it. Thanks!!
This is a big negative. Plus you said the campus feels lackluster at Penn.
Apart from the $32,000 you’ll save over four years, this is by far the main reason to choose Brown.
I doubt one person on this forum will say choose Penn over Brown. These schools are peers. There will be no benefit in choosing Penn that will make it worth the very large amount of money you will pay over Brown.
Winters in Philly aren’t that much better than winters in Providence. It’s cold and grey in both places.
If your family qualified for that much financial aid at each of those institutions, doesn’t that 8K/yr difference mean a lot to your family? Can they so easily afford an extra 8K/yr for you to choose Penn?
Don’t be naive. Premeds work very hard everywhere - there will be a lot of competition anywhere you go, among premeds, just as much at Brown as anywhere else. Socially, it’s not as if Brown is a commuter school that empties out on the weekends - there will be a social life. And Providence is an up and coming city, with an arts district and restaurants. I’m sure you can have a very good time there.
Me? If money were no object, I’d take Penn. You’ve got better access to participate in research. HUP and CHOP are right on campus, for volunteering opportunities. Philly is bigger. Penn is bigger, with more majors, should you decide to change fields (many who start out premed don’t finish premed). It’s easier and cheaper to get home, but it’s still pretty easy to get from Providence to NYC on Amtrak.
But if 8K/yr makes a difference to your family, Brown is a fantastic alternative. My husband always says that the toughest choices are between two very good options, and that’s what you’ve got here.
If your plan is to go to med school (or law school), I would choose Brown. You will have more control over your schedule, and you will most likely end up with a higher gpa at Brown. This will serve you well in med school admissions.
And … Brown is well known for the overall happiness of its student body, it will be less stressful and in your case, it is cheaper. Save Penn for med school or residency.
There is another thread with this same choice. I think there is a misconception that Brown lacks rigor. This is not true, not at all. Don’t confuse freedom in the curriculum with lack of rigor. From personal observation, I would say, however, that Brown students tend toward the cooperative and supportive, and in our experience that extends years after graduation with a great network.
I know both schools and have lived in Philly. I confess to being biased. Brown is my favorite school. One of my kids thrived there and continues to thrive through the Brown network of alumni/ae , well after finishing.
Providence is a small city, but Thayer St, is fun and Providence has been “happening.” Many people have moved down from Boston. The coastline nearby is scenic. It isn’t that far from NYC. Then again, I love Philly too. I think you have a clear choice in terms of location.
Well, I’m a little bit prejudiced. Hurrah, Hurrah, Pennsylvania!
It would seem to me that a family that is living in such an incredibly expensive city as NYC, but reported income/assets low enough that they qualified for a very large amount of financial aid at each of those schools, would find an 8K/yr difference to be the deciding factor. But for this student, it doesn’t seem to make much of a difference…
Premed classes are very rigorous and will be wherever you go. For my D, the fact that everyone is collaborative rather than competitive was huge. The kids help each other and the profs would love nothing more than all the kids to ace their class. It’s about mastery of the materials, not who got what.
Brown students typically have higher GPAs, which is a huge help when applying to med schools. One reason for the higher GPA is, other than having to take classes recommended for med school, or needed for your major, you don’t HAVE to take any particular class. Another is that the first couple of weeks of every semester, you test-drive your classes and can add/drop/switch, no problem. That lets you get a good idea of whether the class will be interesting to you and if you like the way the prof teaches. You can also take classes pass/fail, but I think you need to use that sparingly because it won’t look very good to med schools.
I’d assume you can get similar EC experiences at both schools and similar abilities to work at hospitals etc. My D has some incredible experiences, and assume kids at Penn would have incredible experiences too.
A good friend of mine went to Brown undergrad for pre-med and he said that med schools wanted to know his grade in every class, so he really couldn’t use the p/f option as I think you’re implying. If you decide not to pursue pre-med, sure you can use that flexibility at Brown. BTW, I think most colleges allow dropping without it appearing as a W on the transcript, within the first couple of weeks but maybe changing from graded to P/NC is easier to do at Brown as is the test driving option.
“Don’t confuse freedom in the curriculum with lack of rigor.”
When I was applying in the mid- 80s Brown was known for being open an not having grades and was very popular for those reasons! But agree, I looked at Brown’s engineering curriculum for an older thread on c/c and the first two years at Brown are pretty much required core classes in addition to four humanities classes being required over the four years.
After reading all the pro-Brown messages, I feel compelled to defend Penn a bit here. Side note, if you go, you will need to drop the “u” in “uPenn”
First, the proximity to the medical school should not be discounted. Undergraduates at Penn have the opportunity to be exposed to world-class, Nobel prize winning medical researchers. It is very common for a pre-med student to have one of their letters of recommendation come from Penn Med faculty. Aside from this obvious advantage, there is also the shadowing and clinical research opportunities. Most of the pre-med students sign up for volunteer opportunities in the ER or OR.
Brown vs. Penn for overall academics is a more even match. I think that there may be more a of a “love of learning” atmosphere at Brown vs. a pre-professional vibe at Penn. However, there are definite enclaves of intellectuals at Penn, it’s just that Wharton and Engineering have an influence on campus.
I don’t think that Penn is exceptionally competitive. Friends collaborate and study together. There are no instances of sabotage or grade grubbing that I saw.
Brown wins for the campus. And Providence is better than Philadelphia in my opinion. I have lived in both places.
But after accounting for everything, including the $32K, the fact that you are pre-med seals the deal for Penn in my opinion. It would be a mistake to consider Brown equivalent to Penn in Medicine. It just is not and there will be more opportunities at Penn for someone interested in Medicine.
The Ivies tend to match each other’s financial aid offers. The OP can take Brown’s offer to Penn’s financial aid office and ask why they are different and can say (if true) that finances are important and that they will commit to Penn if they can receive an equivalent financial aid package.
Thank you all for your input, I greatly appreciate it!! Unfortunately, Penn’s 29K/year tuition is after I sent them my offers from Brown and other T20 schools. It was originally 36K/year and Penn said that they don’t match other schools’ aid :((