BROWN over HYPS????

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello! The question is, did you or would you ever choose Brown University over HYPS? And why?</p>

<p>A little background:
I am a high school senior and athlete who is looking at Brown, Princeton, Yale and Stanford. Originally when I first began my college search Brown was my #1. I was first attracted to the school by the dual Brown-RISD program. With my sport, the coach told me I could not do the program but I found that I still loved Brown and the environment the open curriculum created. One of exploration and discovery and I felt that at Brown I would be able to explore my passions more fully than the HYPS schools. Most of my life, I am passive, and I saw Brown as a place where I would really grow as a person. Cheesy I know.</p>

<p>But when I visited Yale, Princeton, and Stanford, I was stunned at the difference between these schools and Brown. Not in academics, but in looks. So shallow but hear me out. I had always heard that Brown had a lower endowment, but I didn't believe I would be able to see it. YPS were BEAUTIFUL. The classes I sat in on at Yale and Princeton were so fascinating I found myself interested in subjects I normally despise. The facilities were breathtaking. The resources. Everything was so perfect at these places. It was unsettling how perfect they were. An oasis where all troubles disappeared. (Stanford I was disappointed by their focus on the undergrad and the fact that there weren't enough seats for everyone in the lecture halls I went to) At Yale and Princeton though, I felt myself falling prey to prestige, imagining myself telling my friends "I'm going to <em>insert big name school here.</em>" (not that Brown does not have a good name, there just isn't the same reaction when I tell ppl I am looking there. Several (1-2) ppl go to Brown each year from my school, while maybe one has gone to P or Y in the past three years.) I blame Gilmore Girls for my weakness for US rankings.</p>

<p>How does Brown's endowment really effect the school? Is Brown really lower tier than HYPS? Certainly in looks, but what about what matters: undergraduate education and job opportunities after college? I really don't see how Brown is worse in actual education. Even though HYPS were all beautiful, I still liked Brown's environment more. But I am stuck listening to peers, friends and family say how Brown is the "stupid ivy league," that it is for washers, celebrities children who can't get in anywhere else. The worst ivy. That Cal and UVA are better schools than Brown. That it is overrated and only ranks so high in US News because it is an ivy league...Waste of money. No one works hard. That it is easier than Princeton and Yale because there is only 30 credits requirement so it is for slackers. All these comments make me question myself and my judgement. I wonder, if I have to pay full tuition for a school, might as well go with the HYPS, right? Or...</p>

2

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<p>A Brown coach? Did he say why? </p>

<p>The RISD connection (availability of courses if not the dual degree program), and the Open Curriculum, are two features that distinguish Brown from the other Ivies. It could be an excellent choice if you want to go into a field such as architecture or computer graphics. Assuming you’re admitted, of course. The dual degree program only accepts 13-15 candidates.</p>

<p>Have you picked out some safety and match schools?</p>

3

<p>The time commitment on top of the program would be too overwhelming. </p>

<p>And yes, I have safeties.</p>

4

<p>I would personally pick Brown because of the open curriculum. I don’t like people telling me what classes I have to take to graduate. It’s why I went to Grinnell.</p>

5

<p>Nobody but you should answer this question. They are all great schools but they do have a number of different attributes. Visit the schools and find the one that feels right to you.</p>

6

<p>My student was positive that Harvard was “THE” school to go to, and really did not want to go to “the same school as parents”. Then spent time (quality 2 day visit)at each. The classes, curriculum and mostly the feel of the people (interactions, friendliness, “being real people and not snobs, or exclusive or grinds” at both schools changed things around so Brown was first choice. Believe me there are lots of “high quality, intense academics” at Brown. They are just challenging themselves, not competing against their peers. (and even helping each other out more). Hence the “laid back” reputation.</p>

7

<p>When I visited the schools, I definitely liked Brown more than Princeton and Stanford. Princeton seemed too perfect. Everything was so shiny I felt trapped in a fairy tale. Stanford was a bit anti-intellectual compared to what I had witnessed at the east coast schools. Everything seemed geared towards the graduate schools. But I really liked Yale, and I really liked Brown. They were similar in different ways. The only down-side to Yale for me was New Haven (a cop almost ran me over) and the environment wasn’t as friendly as Brown’s. The downside to Brown is people question my choice because it is not as prestigious. Which really offends me because I see it as a school equal or better than the HYPS schools.</p>

<p>What made you choose the school?</p>

8

<p>My D loved Brown on paper, but after spending a day and night on a campus visit, she ended up not applying. I can’t even tell you exactly why. She just didn’t like it. It happens.</p>

9

<p>When my college freshman was applying to colleges last year, he went with his instincts and gut feeling.</p>

<p>He was in the same boat as you…very high gpa and all around great test scores and ec’s. He did not care at all if people questioned his choice as it wasn’t as “prestigious” as other choices. When it came right down to it, he picked the school he felt the most connection with and could see himself living there for 4 years.</p>

<p>I felt he could have chosen a more “prestigious” school, but in the end does it really matter? He is currently at Tufts. He wasn’t happy with several of the Ivy schools we looked at. We did not even look at Brown because of their reputation to reject soooo many qualified applicants. So what if it’s considered a “lower tier” Ivy! That argument, imo, is ridiculous anyway!</p>

<p>By-the-way, my S loves Tufts. It’s not even an Ivy, yet he’s very happy, imagine that! :wink: I believe it’s the person and their attitude that will succeed in life, not the name of the college.</p>

10

<p>Hi OP,</p>

<p>I’m someone who chose one of the “lower Ivies” over HYPS for undergrad. I was also a recruited athlete like yourself. Today I work for an employer that recruits heavily within the Ivy League and also at other top schools like MIT, Williams, Duke, etc. Year in and year out we are one of the top destinations for some of the best students at these elite schools (think McKinsey, Goldman, Blackstone, etc). I don’t normally post here, but since your making a decision that I once had to make, I thought I would try to tell you the things that I wish someone would have told me all those years ago.</p>

<p>1) Academics</p>

<p>The quality of your academic experience will be almost 100% driven by you. All of the top universities offer more in the way of resources (brilliant professor and peers, top notch facilities, research and internship opportunities) than any one student could possibly take advantage off. The Brown students I’ve interviewed have been among the most intelligent and thoughtful people I’ve ever had the pleasure of meeting. This however has very little to do with Brown, and very much to do with the students themselves. I could say the same thing about the students I’ve meet from Harvard or Cornell. Among the top 25 or so schools, academics are not a differentiator. </p>

<p>2) Fit</p>

<p>The fit that high school guidance counselors talk about is largely a myth. Not because fit itself is a myth. On the contrary, it is a very important component of both your happiness and your performance while your at school. HS guidance counselor fit is a myth because it is nearly impossible to have any idea of how you’ll fit at a university until you get there. Several universities have studied what makes students feel that a university is a good fit for them. Do you know what they found? The thing that made far and away the biggest difference in a prospective students perception of fit was THE WEATHER ON THE DAY THEY VISITED THE SCHOOL! So “Fit”, at least as you perceive it now, is also very likely not a differentiator. </p>

<p>3) Athletics</p>

<p>Here is where you can start to actually differentiate between the schools. If you are a varsity athlete at an Ivy League school you will spend 4-6 hours per day practicing. That means you will spend 4-6 hours per day with your teammates. Make sure you like them. This will be a huge driver of your happiness, and therefore your success, at your school.</p>

<p>4) Employment</p>

<p>This is another real differentiator. Despite what you will frequently hear, there really is a big difference between HYP/Wharton and the rest of the Ivy League when it comes to hiring at the most elite employers. Similarly, outside the top 25 or so schools hiring by these employers is for all intents and purposes non-existent. This applies specifically to the fields of management consulting and high finance (investment banking, private equity, hedge funds, etc). </p>

<p>Right now your probably thinking that you are not interested in these fields (frankly if a HS student told me that they were I’d think something was wrong with them). However, if your anything like your elite school peers, by the time your are looking to graduate from college you will be scrambling madly to secure such a job. Why? Because you will realize just how few opportunities there are for entry level employment that offer all of: a) reasonable compensation and benefits, b) interesting and challenging work, c) significant responsibility early in your career, and d) a clear path of upward career mobility. I know I’m going to catch a lot of crap for saying what I just said, but it is unfortunately true. The gap in both pay and influence between these types of Wall Street jobs and everything else is large an growing (I don’t support this, but its the truth). </p>

<p>Brown/Cornell/Penn will give a shot at these types of jobs, but not the same shot as Harvard/Yale/Princeton. If your really interested see Lauren Rivera’s paper “Ivies, extracurriculars, and exclusion: Elite employers’ use of educational credentials”. It really is quite an accurate reflection of the hiring processes at these types of places. I think these hiring practices are garbage, but they are very real.</p>

<p>The major exception to everything I’ve said above is Silicon Valley. If your the have the interest and ability to excel in a highly quantitative and technical field, then all the so called prestige and snobbery becomes trivial. Tech is likely the one area that can compete with Wall Street in terms of pay and opportunities for advancement, and it is also much more meritocratic.</p>