I was accepted to a bunch of schools and have narrowed it down to Brown University and the Dual BA Program between Trinity College Dublin and Columbia University. Financially they are about the same for me. I’ll list some pros and cons:
Brown Pros:
Close to home, which makes travel less expensive and I think I want to be near family now that I think about it. Also makes networking and getting a job after college easier as I’m in the same area
Mental health: Brown seems to be a very open, friendly, and chill community. I definitely don’t want to repeat the past 4 years, which have been everything but those things. I feel like I can be happy at brown
Open Curriculum: I have to time to explore. I want to study history and Brown has a t10 program. Also I feel comfortable knowing that if history doesn’t work out, I can pick something more vocational to help me get a higher paying job.
#1 in undergrad teaching and close relationships with professors
I’m considering law school, and Brown seems like a great feeder to t14
I should be able to study abroad my entire junior year. Im gonna reach out to brown to see how that works
Cons:
My mom thinks Brown is “too easy.” Not that I wont be challenged there, but she feels like everyone there doesn’t have a focus. She wants my education to be worth it and doesn’t want me to just “play around,” which it seems like lots of brown students do
I’ve heard it’s a pretty wealthy/snobby school. Can anyone confirm?
Housing: Haven’t heard amazing things. I prefer to have a single
Dual BA
Pros:
International experience–this can help me standout for jobs and I think it is an amazing opportunity to grow personally
I was admitted for history, and both Trinity and Columbia have top history programs. However, I’m concerned about the job opportunities with two history degrees. I love history. I’m pretty good at it not gonna lie and I am passionate about it A LOT. But I want to have a pretty good salary in life considering I am investign so much money into these schools.
Diverse student body: students come from all over the world
Independent living: I have my own room, bathroom, and am self-catered, which I prefer. Sometimes I feel like Brown might feel like summer camp lol
Seems focuses, which will keep me centered and not worrying about what I’m doing with my studies and life
I have family in Ireland and England, and my Sister studies at Manchester. Getting to manchester is like a 30 minute flight very cheap and I would love to connect with her more.
Cons:
General Studies at Columbia: I’ve heard its less prestigious and Columbia doesn’t really treat GS the same. I’ve also heard horrible things about students transitioning to columbia and not being allowed to join clubs, feeling left out, not valued, etc.
Restarting my junior year: I’d still be with the dual ba students, but I don’t know if I feel comfortable restarting at another school. This would also give me less time to build a network.
Personal expenses: Dublin and NYC are EXPENSIVE cities, and the estimated personal costs of the program about $10,000 + per year.
Mental health: Trinity sort of throws you into the deep end, and at Columbia I’ve heard people are depressed.
I’ve met some students, and while we seem very similar (driven, smart, etc.) a lot of them just want to party and hook up in dublin. It seems like they are trying to escape their traditional households. I’m definitely not the same.
I’ve thought a lot about these schools. Any input would be appreciated
These cons are, um… No offense to your mom, but she’s wrong. There can be wealthy and/or snobby people at almost all private elite colleges. Brown isn’t summer camp. It seems you feel you will be happier at Brown, which counts for a LOT.
You sound much more interested in the Trinity/Columbia program and you seem to love history. As far as Trinity throwing you in the deep end, yes, you will be more self directed there. But Dublin is a fun, lively city and you won’t lack for things to do. They expect students to be able to handle themselves and their studies.
Both Columbia and Brown will open doors for you so I don’t think the “prestige” factor matters. But if you are really concerned, it seems your degree is actually awarded by Trinity. Is that right? Trinity will not have as much name recognition in the US. If you are intending to stay in Ireland/UK it’s possibly a better name than Brown or Columbia. Outside of the US, people mostly know the household names i.e., Harvard and Yale.
Go for the place you think you will be happiest at.
As I was reading this thread, my impression is that neither option is best for you as the negatives–real or not–are substantial to you. My thought was that you might be better served by attending an LAC. I then researched your earlier threads & saw that you made one asking whether Pomona or Williams should be your choice.
In short, focus on your outstanding LAC options of Pomona or Williams since the negatives that you see in Brown & the Columbia/Trinity options are overwhelming your thoughts about each alternative.
Really, truly not an issue. Your opps will be the same whether you have one or two history degrees- and unless you go into academics / education, will be pretty much the same as with any other humanities degree.
“I’ve heard” is the most useless non-data source on which to base decision making!
Stop and think for a minute. Do you really think that everybody at Columbia is depressed? of course not. Are some students depressed? of course. What matters is whether you will find it depressing. Do you think that there are no ‘wealthy and snobby’ people at Columbia or TCD - or any ‘prestigious’ college?!
As for TCD ‘throwing you in the deep end’ (full disclosure- I used to teach there): in Ireland (and the UK) you are expected to be responsible for your own learning. The biggest challenge for US students (as your sister in Manchester will tell you) is that there is much less continuing assessment: your entire grade can be based on your final exam (though in practice in history you will typically have at least one other graded element), so you have to keep on top of your work yourself- if you are a procrastinator it can get ugly, In Dublin when the trees start flowering students know that it’s time to start getting serious about studying for exams, which are much more regurgitative (esp in 1st year) than you might be used to. Irish students will talk as if they aren’t doing any studying at all- but they are. If you go, do not believe anybody who tells you “I haven’t done a tap”!
Your time at both Trinity & Columbia will be highly structured, as you will have a lot of required courses.
But here’s the thing: they are such different things! me, I would love the Columbia Core, the Dublin experience and learning history from different points of view. My husband would not love the Core, but would love the freedom of Brown’s open curriculum, where he could study a huge range of things and maybe do a study abroad at (say) Oxford. I would love the immersion in two great cities, he would definitely not. And so on.
There is no meaningful difference in the objective metrics- both options will give you more opportunities than you can take advantage of in four years! But there is a very big difference in what they will be like experientially- and for that it really comes down to how they feel to you - not your parents, not people on CC. Just you. It’s exciting and scary and you just have to trust yourself and jump in, knowing that you will discover good and bad parts along the way, but that you will make it be the right choice. Welcome to adulting!
My cons for either programs are not overwhelming. I apologize if that wasn’t clear. Every program has its pros and cons. I’m just being and honest and making sure I’m not actively ignoring the cons. I already cut out Williams because they gave me no aid, is pretty isolated, and very athletic which I am not. For Pomona, it was my dream school. I love it very much. But they also gave me no aid. I appealed, and if they come back with more money then it will be on the table again. Also, I think I prefer browns proximity to family. Its only a 50 minute train ride away. For the dual ba, I’ll be close to family in Ireland and the UK, and nyc neighbors my home state
I love history and completely get why you would want to study it, but honestly the history grads in every industry may not be doing anything related to that major. Do most go on to get more advanced degrees? You need to think about that and do more digging. Why don’t you try talking to Brown history dept/Brown history majors. My guess is if you came up with an idea of possible career goals and minor/internships that could help hone your path your mom’s concerns about Brown would be greatly diminished.
Also, I think you need to really evaluate your mental health concerns. Are you just uneasy about leaving your comfort zone or is there more to it? I think many kids are feeling like they want to be closer to home these days.
The other side of the coin to the idea that History majors end up doing something other than History with their careers is that there are industries where History majors do continue to stay in touch with that interest, i.e. Education, Journalism, Government, Museums, Tourism, and Publishing right off the top of my head.
As an example, a friend of mine has her PhD in Cultural Anthropology. She and her husband run a successful business setting up and leading tours and safaris to various places in Africa. She is also active on historical and preservation boards in her state. It’s about carving out your own individual path.
My post will not be helpful probably but my daughter was in your situation 3 yrs ago. She was accepted to the Dual program with Columbia/Sciences Po in France (does not know French) and to Brown. She chose Columbia but ultimately did not attend as went to Oxford where she was also accepted pending the results of her AP exams.
FWIW, she really likes the social life in Oxford even during the pandemic. I guess, living in Dublin will be equal fun. Moving to Ireland, however, is logistically more difficult, especially if you need a visa (my daughter did not). If it were me, I would choose Brown for her but I am just a mom.
I think I’m gonna reach out to the brown trinity and Columbia history department to ask about career services, employability, and what grads have done.
Great idea! That’s who’s in the best position to tell you.
The Columbia/Trinity program isn’t for everyone and I’m sure you’ll get a phenomenal education at Brown. But my hunch is that an international experience like the the dual degree program is something that will stay with you all your life in a way that few others will. The caveat is IF . . . you’re up for it at 18 years old and IF you’re up for having your college years split like that.
If you have anxiety, I definitely don’t recommend going to Ireland. The stress to navigate college across two different countries, cultures, and education systems will be substantial. My daughter in England is very strong mentally, and it was tough for her to get her footing initially. You will have to adapt twice - once in Trinity and once in Columbia. Columbia is a very competitive place, and it will take you time to adjust. I feel you will have a much more positive experience in Brown.
I was hoping my time in university will help me figure that out. I’ve heard history grads are in virtually every field.