Brown vs. JHU

Hello!
I first want to start off by saying thanks for taking the time to read this post.

So now that I’ve heard back from all my schools in terms of where I’ve been accepted, it’s finally time for me to make a decision on where I want to go. I’ve been accepted to 9 schools and I’ve narrowed it down to two: Johns Hopkins and Brown.

I really like the fact that both of these schools have a pretty open curriculum, which is a good asset considering I hope to double major. In terms of cost, both of them are almost the same (literally there is only a couple of hundred dollars separating them). I live in Virginia, so Maryland is really close compared to Rhode Island, but I don’t mind being that far away from home.

But of course, the most important thing is academics. I definitely plan on majoring in Neuroscience, and hopefully double majoring with Public Health as well, and I also plan to go on a pre-med track. I know that Johns Hopkins has a great science program in general and lots of research. But, I’m a little concerned about the environment. I know that the whole “Hopkins is really competitive” stereotype might be overplayed, but it’s hard to not keep that in your mind. On the other hand, Brown is said to be more “laid back,” but I’m wondering how much of that is a stereotype too, considering that it’s pretty selective in the first place.

Anyways, I’m not even sure if I’m making any coherent sense, but I would love to hear anyone’s thoughts on the issue. Thanks again!

I can’t comment at all on Hopkins.

The most competitive students at Brown tend to be premed. I think laid-back is not the right term for Brown students. They work hard but not competitively, not to be better than or get a higher grade than fellow students, but because they are intellectually curious.

Get some numbers and consider them. What percentage of students are pre-med STEM at Hopkins vs. Brown. Is there a difference? If yes, which would you prefer? If you can, visit.

@fireandrain Thanks for your response! I do agree that “laid-back” is probably not the best way to describe Brown. I do know that many more students at Hopkins are pre-med than at Brown, which has both its merits and its downsides. In terms of my preference, it’s really hard to say, which is what I’m trying to get more insight on. Unfortunately, I probably won’t get the opportunity to get to tour Brown, but I have toured Johns Hopkins. I feel like there are pros and cons to both of them, as with every school. I think you seem to really like Brown, yes? What do you think sets Brown apart from other schools?

Since I went to Brown, and my daughter went to Brown – yes, I’d say I really like Brown. I particularly love the open curriculum, because it means students are taking classes they want to take, that they’ve proactively decided to take, as opposed to taking classes they have to in order to fulfill requirements.

Brown and JHU will both provide a wonderful education. Brown may be the best UG school for pre-meds in the US due to its grading policies and grade inflation. At Brown the average GPA is 3.65. You can graduate in the bottom of your class with a 3.4 GPA and still get into med school. At Hopkins the average GPA is 3.3 so you will need to be 1.5 standard deviations above the mean to get into med school.

Grade inflation is a dangerous game to play, besides the fact that it goes against the idea of a meritocracy - the whole basis of evaluation in our educational system. Sure it sounds great, but once word gets out that your institution is a grade inflater then all your hard work (or mediocre work) becomes less meaningful. You will potentially lose out in hiring and grad school acceptances with students who earned their grades if the employer or admissions committee believes your grades are inflated. We’re a meritocracy that values hard work and skill, wouldn’t it make sense for someone to be penalized if they didn’t earn the grades they’re receiving? Sure, a little grade inflation, if you can get away with it, is great, but when your school is notorious for it? Not so great in my opinion. Sure students from Brown, Princeton, Stanford, Harvard, and other schools often notorious for inflation get hired, go to med school and do great things, but if everything were hunky-dory with this process then why did these schools work so hard to quell these rumors and attempt to change the perception after word got out in the early 2000s? You know it’s a problem when schools began actively enforcing “grade deflation” policies to try and counteract what they recognized to be a serious problem. Administration saw the effects of what happened to their students when they ventured out into the world and everyone doubted their transcripts. Medical schools invest significant resources into finding the best students to create a diverse and qualified class. If you think for a moment that your inflated transcript will sneak by them…well, that’s just wishful thinking. Heck, I had a professor who served on a med school admission committee and he told me that (when he served on the committee in the 2000s) they would put applicants from notorious grade inflators to the side and have a whole separate discussion about them since they weren’t sure how to interpret applicant after applicant with straight As that they were (rightfully so) highly suspicious of. Sure this is anecdotal, but do we really think when all this came out that graduate schools and big employers heard nothing (let alone had their own suspicions well before word got out)? When over 90% of your students are graduating with honors (as was the case at Harvard), people notice, and there are consequences. In my mind, the only thing worse than a low GPA is a GPA that is the same as the guy next to me when I am more qualified and worked harder than him. When something sounds too good to be true (“come here, we all get ‘As!’”), then it is.

It’s true that Brown has worked hard to try and combat this perception, and I’m happy to hear that an average GPA of 3.65 is much more reasonable than where it was, but clearly the perception is still out there (and Brown is still paraded around in discussion about this). Unfortunately the mindset among some students is to think grade inflation is a great thing and a selling point, which is rather myopic in my opinion.

Here are a few links regarding some of the startling findings at these schools on grade inflation, editorials on why grade inflation is not such a great thing for students who want jobs or to get into graduate school and how difficult it is to change a grading culture once it is established:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/grade-inflation-colleges-with-the-easiest-and-hardest-grades/
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-wellesley-grade-inflation-20141209-story.html
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2002/02/08/edtwof2.htm
http://www.businessinsider.com/13-schools-where-its-really-hard-to-fail-2013-5?op=1
http://dailyprincetonian.com/news/2014/08/princeton-committee-recommends-end-of-grade-deflation-era/
http://stanfordreview.org/article/grade-inflation-must-go/
http://www.browndailyherald.com/2014/03/12/fighting-grade-inflation-cause-without-rebel/

I think from the lay perspective, Hopkins and Brown are considered direct peers in terms of quality and rep.

You’ll be academically challenged at either, be surrounded by very smart students at either, enjoy the flexibility of the open curriculum at either, and have the benefit of an overall great education at either.

Since finances are a wash, I think you should give some weight to other fit variables:

  • Academic
  • Social/Cultural
  • Environment
  • Logistics
  • Dorms/Food (maybe call that Quality of Life)

If you can, visit them, and factor in your gut reaction.

They’re both excellent. Congrats!

My daughter is a Freshman at Brown and loves it! She has a friend at JHU who is very very stressed out. Brown is rigorous, but it is the students vs. the material NOT students vs. students. I also think that Providence and Brown are a much safer, happier environment than what I’ve heard about JHU’s neighborhood. She can walk to the Amtrak station from campus and take the Amtrak train home. Providence has the cutest Amtrak station I’ve ever seen!

Go to Brown… because of Academic Environment, Physical Surroundings, everything.

I’m pretty sure Princeton isn’t known for its grade deflation policies… quite the opposite, in fact!

I think I’ll just echo everyone else here and say that Brown is great for pre-med cause of the low-stress, objectively easier environment because of its grade inflation and open curriculum. It’s also in a great area and the campus is stunning - you really can’t go wrong with it.

You will have a lot more fun at Brown. Go to Brown.

I think these are the most significant differences between brown and JHU that my younger son noticed/learned about through tours, info sessions and overnight visits at the two schools:

At brown the surrounding neighborhood is far nicer than the one surrounding 3 sides of JHU. JHU doesn’t have any housing beyond freshman and sophomore years…juniors and seniors must find off campus apts, whereas if a brown student wants to live on campus all 4 yrs, they can. Also, at brown the dining halls cater to all class years, whereas JHU has a freshman dining hall and a sophomore dining hall. The upper classmen eat off campus as they are no longer living on campus. So this limits the interaction between class years. Finally, the engineering school and the kids majoring in science cast a long shadow on campus. At the JHU overnight, my kid was told by some of the kids, living on the floor where he was hosted, that as humanities majors they sometimes felt like second- class citizens, that they had heard engineering students referring to the school of arts & sciences as the school of arts & crafts. I think this plays into the different vibes on these 2 campuses. Brown has amazing ECs in theater, music, daily paper, etc. that JHU just doesn’t have because it isn’t attracting kids interested in those ECs in significant number. My older son attended brown as a neuroscience concentrator but spent lots of time both bc of interest and to support friends, attending plays, orchestra, lit readings, stand- up comedy, and had a blast doing so. Brown because of all this is a really vibrant community in a way that JHU doesn’t seem to be. I’m not even sure they have a daily paper or a great radio station like wbru, which my kid still listens to although he’s no longer on campus.