Hi everyone! I’m trying to decide where to go to undergrad next fall, and I’m stuck between these three schools. I’m planning on majoring in history and biology, and one of my main considerations is whether the school I choose has any bearing on whether I can get into a decent law school (I want to do medical malpractice / health law).
I’m going to list a few pros and cons for each school, so if you have any advice on which one to pick, I really appreciate it!! Cost will be approximately the same for all three, so that isn’t a major concern for me.
Brown
Pros:
The Open Curriculum is great for letting my double concentrate in history and biology while taking language courses on the side (I want to continue studying Spanish, French, and Chinese)
Grade inflation is probably good for law school
Campus is beautiful and I like the location of being just a little bit removed from the city without being in the middle of nowhere
From what I’ve heard, Brown is super collaborative and chill, and that’s an environment I think I’ll like a lot
Cons:
No law degree offered → can’t really talk to current law students or ask for their advice
Seen as an “easy Ivy”
Ranked lower for history and biology than UPenn
UPenn
Pros:
Philadelphia seems like a great place to live
Best ranked for my potential majors out of all of my choices
The existence of Wharton → can take business classes there if I so chose
Cons:
Once again, the existence of Wharton → I was accepted into CAS, and I’m worried about being looked down upon by Wharton kids
From what I’ve seen, a very cutthroat and competitive environment
Very known for Greek life, which I won’t participate it → hard to fit into social scene?
Georgetown
Pros:
SFS → perfectly combines my interests in history & languages
Location in DC → can get internships with NGOs super easily
Collaborative environment
Cons:
Ranked last out of my three choices for all of my potential majors
I don’t want to go work for the State Department or anything government related, so any connections I can make through SFS doesn’t really matter
I hate to be that person, but prestige-wise, Georgetown is sadly last
I will be visiting all three in April, but in the meantime, if anyone can give me a quick ranking / review of the three, thank you so much for the help!!
My kids went to great schools, but hands down, Brown is my favorite. I love the free curriculum college hill, and most of all the “vibe.”
I hope you visit all three to help you clarify because there are good arguments for all three, as you have outlined. My only comment would be to worry less about prestige as well as about your future law career (you may change your mind, and also, you can major in anything and go anywhere and still do law school on a level you want).
Law school = gpa, LSAT, other experiences/activities.
It could be Bowlimg Green instead of Brown and a top law school would still be in reach.
Just check out Harvard enrollees to know. Yes most come from top schools but many don’t. But that’s more those same kids when applying to top undergrads vs they pick from specific schools.
Choose what’s best for you, not best for a possible legal career.
Go and visit each one. If at all possible, go spend a 3-4 day weekend there, staying with someone from your high school who goes there, or contact any group with which you have a connection (Hillel, Newman Center, anything) to find someone to stay with. Go sit in on some classes, talk with people, if you can borrow a dining card and get into the dining halls to eat with people, do that too.
I doubt that you’d have to worry that Wharton students look down on CAS students. There are many, many social venues at Penn outside of Greek life. It’s larger than Brown, so even with the Greek system being present, there are still so many social opportunities that you can have a great social life there without ever setting foot in a frat. As an undergrad, I don’t think you would have any contact with the law school at Penn unless you happen to have friends who are in law school there, or you wind up somehow connecting to do some kind of work with volunteer legal projects there.
If you’re interested in going into medical malpractice law, honestly, a biology major isn’t going to do you a bit of good. You would need clinical understanding, which you’d only really get by going to medical school, too, and you’d still be hiring clinical consultants to understand whether the medical maloccurrence (bad outcome) is really malpractice. If you want to be able to understand the medical literature so that you can research whether or not a case is worth taking, and be able to make a case, you’d really need med school, too. But of course, most malpractice lawyers are not also MDs. So I’d say only major in biology if you really love it - it’s not going to do you any good. If you’d prefer majoring in history and are only doing the bio because you think it would help you in a malpractice career, don’t bother. Honestly, short of med school, the only other thing that you might do that could prepare you at least some would be a nursing degree, and that doesn’t really teach you how to read and evaluate the medical literature, but it does give you an understanding of what goes on at the bedside and in the hospital.
Majoring in Bio doesn’t move the needle-- at all- in terms of you being an effective lawyer. Agree 100% with parentologist- unless you’re going to become a nurse or an MD, any old law degree will get you what you need.
HOWEVER- it is WAY too early for you to even be thinking about a legal specialty. Every lawyer takes civil procedure, constitutional, torts, etc. in their first year, and nobody cares what kind of law you THINK you want to practice- the curriculum is pretty standard. So if I were you, I’d table the whole law thing for a few years.
Any of these U’s can get you into law school in the sense that you’ve got to do the work, learn to write really, really well, and steep yourself in critical and logical thinking. So major in history, philosophy, whatever…
I have honestly never heard of anyone dismissing an undergrad U because it doesn’t have a law school. Many U’s don’t even have undergrads and law students in the same physical location/campus so the notion that you’re hanging out with law students-- it just doesn’t happen. And what you will learn from them? Law school is a ton of reading and writing; your first year grades matter a TON for your future prospects (coast in L3 when you already have a job offer from your summer firm) and preparing for the bar exam is no fun. That’s what you’ll learn!
Pick the place you will thrive and be challenged.
Medical malpractice is one of the last fields in law where elitism hasn’t really crept in unless you are doing Intellectual Property law with sophisticated medical device companies (but I don’t think that’s what you mean). Some of the top malpractice folks in the country went to colleges you’ve never heard of, and third tier law schools and they can still eke out a 7 figure income…
Consider that undergraduate programs tend not to be credibly ranked. And U.S. News, for example, doesn’t rank undergraduate programs in these areas at all.
I agree that you should try to visit each college for a vibe check. FWIW, my CAS kid has never felt looked down upon by Wharton students.
There are so many social outlets aside from Greek life on campus; Penn has over 600 clubs! But some of the professional and service oriented Greek organizations are an easy way to socialize with people who share similar interests.
As an undergraduate, you can take classes in any of Penn’s 12 schools including the law school. I believe that option is only open to upperclassmen and/or advanced students and you would have to request permission prior to enrolling.
A JD/BA is also an option. Motivated students can apply for law school admission during their junior year and submatriculate into the JD program during their senior year.
This would be an excellent opportunity. Penn Law is one of the top law schools in the country. Someone who is accomplished enough to be accepted from Turkey to Penn, is probably going to do well enough that submatriculation into Penn Law might very well be an option.
BTW, Penn happens to have a fantastic Middle Eastern Studies program, which includes Turkish. This means that there will be some Turkish culture going on there, and some faculty from Turkey teaching Turkish, in addition to Turkish students in the various disciplines.
Your cons of these schools really reflect either things that don’t matter or rankings. You need to find the school where you will be the happiest because happy students do better in college than unhappy ones.
I agree that your post sounds like Brown is your top choice. As noted, the vast majority of colleges do not have law schools. Princeton and Dartmouth also don’t have law schools…and still, they have many many successful grads who become lawyers.
Visit these colleges and see where you feel comfortable. Frankly, I would suggest also that you forget about the “rankings”. These are all very fine universities.
Former Brown undergrad and Penn grad (a little while ago though). I’m going to echo what others have said- the difference for your life outcomes is negligible between these three excellent choices. You are hairsplitting to find differences here. I posted somewhere else it’s like you are trying to decide between a Porsche, Ferrari, and a Maserati. There are no bad choices. Check out these schools and see how you feel. Whatever your gut tells you go with it. You can go far from any of these schools and choosing one over the other isn’t going to be the limiting factor in your success. FWIW I do think the stereotype of Brown being an “easy Ivy” where everyone is collaborative and there’s no competition and it’s like a utopia where everyone is rooting for each other and supporting each other is a little exaggerated- there’s still competition and challenges, but the open curriculum is a great feature.
This is really unlikely to happen anywhere. The Law School at Georgetown is on another campus. The pre law club at any school will have events that put you in touch with practicing lawyers. That is more helpful than taking to current students.
Thank you so much for the feedback! As someone who have graduated from both UPenn and Brown, would you say that there is a distinct difference in terms of the collaborativeness on both campuses? I came from a rather large competitive public high school, so if possible, I’d like to avoid another pressure cooker of an environment the next four years.
Hi! Yes, I’m so excited to visit in April and hopefully I’ll just know when I feel at home on one campus in particular. In terms of the clubs, I saw that for some UPenn clubs, you have to apply into them. Would you say this creates a more competitive environment or is this pretty common in most schools? Thank you!
No, it doesn’t create a competitive environment because, if one is denied club membership, there are so many other clubs from which to choose. Sure, a rejection is disappointing in the moment but there are plenty of other options. You could even start your own club (which many people do)!
My DC was quite disappointed when denied membership to a competitive club freshman year. But now that DC is on LT of a popular club, my child feels some gatekeeping is necessary to ensure a dedicated member body.
Are you planning to attend Quaker Days? There will be student groups/clubs tabling along Locust Walk and you can get more information then.
I could not say with any certainty whether club admission creates a competitive atmosphere at the other colleges you’ve listed.