BS in Systems Engineering vs BS in Aerospace Engineering

College Majors Engineering Majors
1

<p>Deciding between a BS in Aerospace Engineering and Systems Engineering.</p>

<p>Basically I want to break into the aerospace industry and have local SE and AE programs available to me with the usual adult constraints (career wife, young child, time, money). I'll be finished with all lower division coursework for both (practically the same anyway) in another 12 or so credit hours. For those not in the know, the upper division work the Aero program gets into more specific concepts and design courses whereas the Systems programs get into the applied math and management factors of projects.</p>

<p>Hopped on company websites for Northrup Grumman, Lockheed, Boeing, and the like, and I found more entry level job titles and openings for people with a BS (not masters) in Systems Engineering than Aerospace engineering. Anybody in the aerospace industry care to weigh in on this?</p>

<p>My observation is that specializing in one area at seems to earn the street cred among other specialists, but the companies they work for seem to be interested in getting more people who make high level decisions while having an appreciation for the low level requirements. I think it is traditional and logical to work as a specialist, earn your keep/prove your worth, and then if you're destined for upper management, opportunities will open up after x years. However, just looking at the current entry points for engineers, this model seems to be outmoded.</p>

<p>I have several years of work experience in managerial roles (non-aerospace), most recently as a functional manager with CSC (on a Lockheed project). While I was the top dog in another department prior to getting promoted (beat out 43 other internal applicants), I liked leading people, being in charge (as much as a middle manager can be), and having a voice in planning meetings a lot more than being a grunt who "shouldn't be concerned" with such matters.</p>

<p>Considering I will be about 10 years older than the other fresh-out-of-college engineers if I went the "traditional" route, the SE critical path to management greatly appeals to me. To be honest, I do not know what my new career entry point would actually be given that I have more work and life experience than a typical FOOC-er, albeit not relevant to rocket science.</p>

<p>I have already solicited opinions from managers and engineers I know at NASA, Lockheed, and GA-ASI, but I am curious what anyone else interested in this topic thinks for whatever it’s worth.</p>

2

<p>I should probably clarify my goals better.
edit:
Basically I want to break into the aerospace industry, work up to project management and eventually move into program management. I suppose this can be done via BA to MBA (half the CEO’s of these companies don’t have engineering degrees), but 1, I am a nerd who actually finds science, math and engineering innovation exciting (and I’m good at it) and 2, I hold the unabashed belief that engineers (and STEM majors in general) are more useful than everyone else.</p>

3

<p>I think systems engineering is better suited as a graduate degree…not an undergraduate degree. A M.S./M.Eng degree in systems engineering is good for someone who ALREADY HAS experience in a certain engineering or CS area because it will incorporate the program management skills applied to your specialty.</p>

<p>At the B.S.-level, systems engineering is more of a “jack of few trades and not a master/specialty of any”.</p>

4

<p>I agree GT, but the reason I question that logic is based on the evidence that companies seem to be hiring people with just a BS in SE and no “hard skills.” In addition, while there are only a dozen or so schools nationwide that offer SE as an undergraduate degree (3 of those being the service academies), why do these programs exist if there weren’t a need? Perhaps employers view it as a technical business degree? </p>

<p>From INCOSE Website:
"There are pros and cons for pursuing an undergraduate degree in systems engineering versus an undergraduate degree in another engineering discipline followed by work experience and a graduate degree in systems engineering. Most senior systems engineers would recommend the later course. If you have mathematical skills and strong interest in one of the traditional engineering disciplines, the latter approach is probably the superior course of action. Many of the concepts and techniques in systems engineering require maturity and breadth/depth in some system domain to master.</p>

<p>However many undergraduate students since the 1960s have proven that an undergraduate degree in systems engineering is a valuable passport to a rewarding career in engineering or business within both industry and government. Students in this latter case typically are more mature in their life experiences, social interactions, and interest in thinking of the “big picture” than are most students that enter college in traditional engineering programs. If you think you are suited to an undergraduate degree in systems engineering, be sure to seek out a program that provides a solid foundation in math, science, and fundamental engineering during the first two years. Also look for a program that provides sufficient electives and courses to concentrate in an engineering specialty area related to some domain of systems (transportation, telecommunications, computer or software engineering, chemical plants, etc.)."</p>

<p>“solid foundation” (lower division)
Calc I-III
DiffEq
Linear Algebra
Physics I-III
Chem for Engineers
O-Chem I
Basic Circuit Analysis
Statics
Thermo
Mechanics of Materials</p>

<p>“mature in life experiences”
10+ years work experience, 5 in supervisory/managerial roles
experience with small companies and large government contractors
married
child</p>

<p>All that aside, I’m still split on the decision.</p>

5

<p>Gt and da6onet would you put industrial engineer in with systems, I just finished My first year and I did very well, I’m thinking to switch into mechanical industrial is more of a management degree and how the hell is a kid out of college gonna become a manager, I like both industrial and mechanical but entering the work force a big concern for me, what field has a better job prospect?</p>

6

<p>Germancho:
I know your mind is spinning right now with all of the similar posts but just take a second. IE is not just managerial. The point of Engineering school is to give you the ability to apply your craft to several different avenues… IE has many. With all of the extra probability, and OR classes we are great for optimization. Like I stated on a previous post, I have had many intern opportunities as an IE. I will be working in business process optimization this January for a Coop, learning a lot and making really great money. Do well, show and interest, and you will more than likely have those same prospects. Deciding b/t IE and ME should be because of your personal preference, not due to jobs scarcity…which isn’t prevalent for either.</p>

7

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<p>A systems engineering program is usually within an industrial engineering department. Many schools have an “Industrial & Systems Engineering” degree. Systems engineering is working through a structure set of engineering “phases” to produce a product. Often times, in order to successfully apply systems engineering techniques in a certain engineering area (Areo, EE, Software, etc), one needs to have a background in that engineering area…which is probably why there are so many GRADUATE systems engineering programs out there (most part-time, distance or online). Those M.S./M.Eng programs in systems engineering are more for experienced engineers of some area who want to nail down the “big picture” of producing solutions.</p>

8

<p>Really, there are two types of engineers: Those who want to stay technical, and those who want to move into management. Those who like to stay technical (like myself) are horrified of management positions (lol). Engineering management positions generally require outgoing engineers who don’t mind frequent travel and interfacing with customers. It’s really kind of ironic as most engineers became engineers because they are introverted, and would rather fly below the radar and crunch numbers.</p>

<p>That being said, Systems engineering is definitely a management oriented degree. A traditional engineering degree can be used for technical work AND to move into management later on. You don’t necessarily need a systems engineering degree to become a manager.</p>

9

<p>Since that post I had a chance to talk with a good friend of mine who is a Systems Engineer for General Dynamics (and previously held the same title at Lockheed). Her undergraduate degree was non-technical while her masters was in systems engineering (which was paid for by Lockheed). Her advice was to specialize in whatever you do, because non-technical project managers are a dime a dozen; having a systems BS is considered non-technical. While her focus was exclusively on software development, her advice I feel carries over into any large technical projects.</p>

10

<p>Systems Engineering is the largest engineering department at my aerospace company…but the majority of engineers in that department have EE, MechE, Aero, or other more traditional undegraduate degrees. Often, these engineers start in other departments and work themselves into system engineering positions in the 5-10 year time frame. At that point, they are setting themselves up nicely for middle-management type positions, and a masters in systems engineering would complement that well. I would think a new-hire with just an undergrad systems engineering degree would find himself basically chasing specifications, running tests to demonstrate compliance, and working with vendors to resolve issues…and not necessarily a stepping stone to lead-type positions.</p>

11

<p>I know this is an old post, but I am border-line on the same fields: Aerospace vs Industrial for GRAD SCHOOL. </p>

<p>My dilemma is that I have ZERO experience in the engineering profession other than my undergraduate degree in Aerospace. Goofing off when I first started college and then life circumstances later in my college career have hurt my GPA (below 3.0) despite finishing my last 30+ credit hours above 3.0. Not considering gpa - my last focused years have demonstrated my ability and understanding of the course materials as well as being a “go to” person to study with/ ask questions of in my classes. My work efforts were verifiable by being accepted into the local Aerospace Honor Society not by gpa but by merit and the confidence of fellow students in the chapter. So my gpa does not define me but it does cause some issue.</p>

<p>This GPA factor has really hurt me concerning finding internships, and because I don’t have that experience I can’t seem to land a job. There are “plenty of engineers that make the cut” and qualify before myself when I am applying for work because of thier Experience And GPA. I have neither. </p>

<p>Now that it is coming up on 2yrs the questions I get are not about gpa anymore, but are about experience. It however was the gpa that caused lack of experience which is causing the lack of employment and I feel stuck in a catch-22. So, almost two years of applying and searching for work in this/similar field/s and I have gotten nowhere! So, my plan now going back to Grad school is to either </p>

<p>1) Specialize and get a Masters in AeroThermoDynamics - I really did enjoy the material and I feel I “found myself” in the last year of course material! (I enjoyed it, favored it and understood it better than other aerospace sub-fields)</p>

<p>or</p>

<p>2) Generalize myself to be more available for employment purposes with a Masters in Industrial/Systems </p>

<p>The main idea is that I understand to Specialize would be to pigeon-hole myself and be available for specific opportunities verses the greater need and more broad degree in Industrial. My heart is not in the generalization because I am more of a math nerd and enjoy the art and complexities of engineering, but after 2years of not being able to land anything, I would hate to have a degree with no demand (it has declined in recent years - particularly on the space Coast) and (again) have no relevant experience. </p>

<p>Any suggestions on one degree or the other? I have gone back and forth, one program for passion and the other for sensibility. I do however understand that by no means guarantees employment.</p>

12

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<p>This bears repeating as I can corroborate it with conversations I had with specialists, systems engineers, and project/program managers (on both coasts and in between).</p>

<p>When I first posed this question I felt, incorrectly, that I had decent work experience (though in non-technical roles) and should therefore be able to leverage a systems engineering BS into a project management position. Also, there was a sense of urgency because I’ll be finishing school 10 years late, so I was impatient. The new religion I have come around to is that one must first prove they are a capable engineer before they can manage other engineers.</p>

<p>With no experience, even if you were passionate about systems engineering, you’d never get directly hired for anything remotely utilizing that skill set. </p>

<p>My advice is for you to get your masters in aerospace and use your grad school gpa (along with hopefully some faculty connections) as your ticket to a better future.</p>