<p>Hey could you guys enlighten me a bit on this. I've looked into all the bs/md programs america has to offer. The shortest programs (NEUCOM, UMKC, JMC) don't seem all that prestigious. In the UK, you can get your MBBS (the UK equivalent of MD) in 5 years, because you go directly into med school there. Then, if you want to practice in the USA (which i of course plan to do), you take the USMLEs and are then qualified for residencies here in America. The pros to this option is that you save 1 year and have the opportunity to go to a more prestigious school (Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, St. George's). The cons are the price (this isn't a problem for me though), and the biggie, getting into a top residency. Will i be better off going the UK path or the bs/md path if i want to get into a top ranked residency program (Johns Hopkins, Mayo, etc.)?</p>
<p>if you have great usmle scores, i think you would be better of with BS/MD. I have a feeling they would trust a US MD degree for top ranked residencies.</p>
<p>i don't see why residencies wouldn't accept a mbbs degree. especially if it's from cambridge :D</p>
<p>good point, i forgot that he was referring to britain's elite colleges.</p>
<p>If you get into something like Cambridge, Oxford, Edinburgh medical schools, I'm sure you'll have no problem getting into a top residency in America as long as you do moderately well there. People are familiar with these schools and know that they can trust their methods of teaching.</p>
<p>However, the problem is that these schools (for their medical programs) are often even harder to get into than the BS/MD programs in America (i know this sounds crazy because the BS/MD are already crazy but it's reality). I know of several people who applied to both Oxford and HPME or Cambridge and HPME (you can only apply to one or the other in the UK) that got rejected from Oxford/Cambridge but got into HPME. You may say oh it's impossible to compare because it's a crapshoot yada yada. That's true to some extent but trust me, I don't know of anybody yet who's been accepted to Cambridge or Oxford Medical programs and I know several several people who have been rejected and gotten into HPME.</p>
<p>This is especially for Edinburgh which is generally considered the top medical school for surgery in the world. But good luck getting into that because it's just basically impossible, even more so than Cambridge and Oxford. (Note that I'm only talking about the medical school. For any other program it's harder to get into Cambridge and Oxford hands down.)</p>
<p>NOTE: I'm not trying to put down BS/MD programs at all. I for one am hoping to get into HPME. But I've done my research and didn't even bother applying to the medical programs at cambridge, oxford, or edinburgh because I know how impossible it is. Universities like st. andrew's are much more realistic.</p>
<p>5 years if you can really learn things thoroughly, go for it. But don't blame anyone if you have killed someone in a surgery.</p>
<p>Hey Extreme (and all who can answer this), since you know more about his than me, maybe you can give me some info. For one, wouldn't going to the UK to get your degree put you at a disadvantage. I figured that even though it's shorter, the curriculum over there will prep you for practice in the UK, which is an entirely different system. Or do they just train you in medical/clinical science, and save all the health system jazz for residency (foundation years over there)? Also, as far as England schools are concerned, isn't St. George's the best med school?? Even better than Oxford/Cambridge? And, if you were accepted into one of these and HPME, which would you choose?</p>
<p>I would advise against it</p>
<p>It is very difficult to make the jump from American high school to UK college (I believe you need to take an entrance exam)</p>
<p>and then the conversion back to the American residencies will be just as hard</p>
<p>Granted, if you're talking about a top rated medical college, you'll have more options than if you were coming from a Caribbean medical school. But I have a feeling that for the toughest residencies, few if any slots are left open for international medical graduates</p>
<p>southernazn918</p>
<p>medical school is medical school anywhere in the world, i doubt they would leave out essentials in any of their school. from my knowledge, mbbs programs are shorter because they don't take the summers off after a certain year that's for hku though, correct me if otherwise about the uk's system.</p>
<p>It's tough for international applicants trying to get into UK universities to study medicine because the UK government sets quotas. This is to make sure that the great majority of people working through the system will work in our health service when they qualify!</p>
<p>And it's even tougher to reapply to an American residency because of the distrust that a foreign medical student may not have learned the things necessary to successfully practice medicine (this is a very xenophobic view but the statistics back up the fact that for any of the highly competitive residencies, international medical graduates occupy few if any slots)</p>
<p>
Funnily enough the majority of the worlds doctors were not trained in the US and the vast majority are not killing anyone. </p>
<p>
It is in general very very rare to meet US students who have come ot the UK straight from high school (though I do know one. pPus there is a parent on this board, Yulsie, who's son is at Oxford. Search for some of her very helpful posts about it.), but not impossible. There isn't an entrance exam as such but there is a new test for medicine, which has only been around for a couple of years. It is called the BMAT and is a bit like US SATs I think (but I haven't taken it, so I can't say for certain)
<a href="http://www.bmat.org.uk/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.bmat.org.uk/index.html</a></p>
<p>This site is about medicine at Oxford.
<a href="http://www.admissions.ox.ac.uk/courses/medi.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.admissions.ox.ac.uk/courses/medi.shtml</a>
There is actually a graduate medicine course, called accelerated medcine, which is 4 years long. In theory graduates in any subject can apply but in practise 99% seem to have studied biology/medical sciences at undergraduate. This is even more competitive than the normal (6 year. 5.5 years at Cambridge due to fewer holidays I think) undergraduate course. the first 3 years are like a normal undergraduate science degree, with the same long holidays. The the final 3 "clinical" years are full time all year on hospital placements, with about 4 weeks vacation per year. Oxbridge and the London college offer this "traditional" medicine course. Other newer medical schools in the UK structure their courses differently and these are more practical with students shadowing hospital doctors from their first year.</p>
<p>Top residencies usually only take US and Canadian graduates.
Lesser residencies,meaning less money or prestige or more lawsuits,like OBStetrics,Internal Medicine,Paediatrics,Psychiatry no problem for international graduates.
But then again,if you have stellar USMLE marks and you are from Oxbridge who knows.
Remember though,in UK 75% is top Mark,in US/Canada, it's more like 90%.So if your British University put down your marks as 68%,a good mark in the UK,the residents selecting committe,made of local US MDs will think it is a poor mark and bypass you for residencies.</p>
<p>i've been to both for summer programs - OXBRIDGE... Can i apply there after sophiomore year at an ivy US school? what's the process?</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Remember though,in UK 75% is top Mark,in US/Canada, it's more like 90%.So if your British University put down your marks as 68%,a good mark in the UK,the residents selecting committe,made of local US MDs will think it is a poor mark and bypass you for residencies
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Yes, I agree the grading system is TOTALLY DIFFERENT. In the UK students are marked by being compared against the answer a professor would give. So getting 70% of the score a world expert in your subject would achieve is a high grade. It's almost impossible to get 80% or more above elementary school. US students are compared to each other. So getting 70% of what your peers know isn't all that great. There are no multiple choice exams in the UK either. Most examinations are essay based. In my finals (at Cambridge) one of the questions on my paper was "What do Biologists mean by 'why?' Discuss" and I had 3 hours to write about this. I'm pretty sure most US college admissions people have encountered this system before and won't penalised you for it.</p>
<p>
The summer programmes aren't actually run by the universities. They just rent out their rooms to private companies to make money in the summer. So having attended these programmes doesn't help you be accepted because anyone can attend if they pay.</p>
<p>To apply to a British University you need to fill in a UCAS form
<a href="http://www.ucas.ac.uk/%5B/url%5D">http://www.ucas.ac.uk/</a>
It is like the common app and it is used by all UK schools. You can apply for up to 6 schools (I think the limit is 4 if you are applying for medicine) and you cannot apply for both Oxford and Cambridge in the same year. There is also a separate Oxford and Cambridge form if you apply to one of these schools. The deadline for overseas Oxbridge applicants is 1st October for entry the following October (in other words, if you want to apply for 2007 admission you must have filled in the form by 1st October 2006). </p>
<p>Many US schools organise study abroad semesters at Oxford. It might be more sensible for you to consider this option if you are already accepted at a US school, especially as there is no financial aid for inetrnationals in the UK.</p>
<p>If you search this forum you will find people have posted questions on this before.</p>
<p>Thank you, Cupcake. Are you or were you at Cambridge? I will follow up on your suggestions...</p>
<p>I am a PhD student at Oxford but I was an undergraduate at Cambridge (I am institutionalised!).</p>
<p>FYI… I just got accepted into Imperial’s 4 year Graduate Entry Program. And I’m a US citizen.</p>