<p>The argument was made for “40 states” not Georgia. In most states, there is a 2-tier structure: A graduate of an ABET/EAC can take the P&P after some amount of experience (3-5 years), while a graduate of a non ABET/EAC (including ABET/TEC) can sit after some lengthier amount of time (9-15 years). In several states, no degree is required at all as long as a person has sufficient work experience.</p>
<p>Of course, that only matters if your position requires a license. The vast majority of engineering work does not. The exception would be civil engineering where most positions do require a license.</p>
<p>From my experience, an engineering technology recruiter will tell you this: A graduate of an engineering program will be responsible for using the laws of physics and other sciences to create new technology or processes (This is the definition of engineering). A bachelor of science in engineering technology graduate will be called a “technologist”. They are responsible for applying the engineer’s designs. An example would be: an engineer designs a robot and the technologist is responsible for getting the robot installed and programmed and working properly on an assembly line. A graduate with an associate of science in engineering technology would be called a technician, they would mainly be doing hands on work, (physically hooking up the wires to the robot and installing it). The problem is is that out of all of the positions with the title “engineer”, only about 10-20% are actually doing real engineering work. These engineers are working in R&D or are licensed engineers doing government infrastructure projects and a lot have masters and ph.d’s. A lot of the positions with the “engineering” title that should be filled by technology majors are instead being filled by engineering majors with bachelors degrees.</p>
<p>In the U.S. there is no recognized profession of Engineering Technologist like there is in other countries. So the engineering technology major is basically left with all of the left over “engineering” jobs (actually technologist jobs) that engineering majors pass over or the technolog major can work as an engineering technician. </p>
<p>I have a bachelors in EET with a minor in math (I took more math than many of the engineering majors did) and I currently work as an engineering technician supporting the engineers with their testing. This position doesn’t formally require any type of degree (one can do an apprenticeship program). Being a technician is a great job really, I work along side the engineers doing the hands-on work setting up the experiments and instrumentation but I’m hourly so I get paid time and half (something the occupational outlook handbook from the government doesn’t take into account so it shows a lot less income on average). Some of the technicians make just as much money as the engineers do working the same amount of hours (50 hour work week), plus we don’t have nearly as much pressure and stress to put up with either.</p>
<p>So I’m studying for the PE exam. Taking it in April. Just started looking at the material today, and I’m somewhere in between the want-to-hurl and the want-to-cry stages.</p>
<p>Something I thought was fairly telling, though, was a statistic I ran across today. It’s a little dated (2000-ish), but the PPI manual by Lindeburg gives the following passing rates for all the NCEES PE exams nationwide in comparison to what the applicant’s degree is:</p>
<p>Engineering from an accredited school: passing rate of 62%
Engineering from a non-accredited school: passing rate of 50%
Engineering Technology from an accredited school: passing rate of 42%
Engineering Technology from a non-accredited school: passing rate of 33%
Non-Graduate: passing rate of 36%</p>
<p>Average passing rate for all applicants: 56%</p>
<p>Now, I’ll typically preach the merits of an accredited engineering degree any day of the week and twice on Sundays, but even I was really surprised by the sequential drops in passing percentages. I didn’t think it made <em>that</em> much of a difference. The implications from those passing percentages are pretty staggering…</p>
<p>That’s the nature of the U.S. workforce. Bachelor degrees are required for many menial jobs that truly have no relation to the position at all, and in many cases probably require nothing more than OJT and a high school diploma. It goes well beyond just engineering degrees. My personal opinion is that billions of dollars are wasted every year to educate college students who will never use what they learn in school. Engineering degrees do hold weight in the job market, but I agree with your statement that only 10-20% of jobs offered to engineers are true engineering jobs. The rest of them could just as easily be filled with business, science, or technology majors, and in some cases probably even less technical degrees. Certainly many of the jobs I’ve interviewed for would be a better fit for the guys I know in engineering technology – they have far more working knowledge about the machinery and processes used on the job – yet my engineering degree enables me to get the job over them. From a macro perspective about the bachelor degree requirement across the board it doesn’t make sense, for us – however, it does for the banks and corporations. I play the game despite my griping.</p>
<p>You can’t imply causality from the correlation. The best engineering programs are more likely than not accredited and the worst engineering programs are more likely than not unaccredited. It’s the quality of the education that leads to passing/failing, not the accreditation, necessarily.</p>
<p>Good School –> Likely to Pass
Good School –> Likely to be accredited </p>
<p>That doesn’t mean that:
Accredited –> Pass</p>
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<p>The reason is that “bachelor’s degree” is used as a proxy for many things. Some people use it as a proxy for intelligence, some use it as a proxy for determination, some use it as a proxy for ability to learn, and some use it as a proxy for maturity. </p>
<p>Does that make it right? No. But with the prevalence of degrees, it’s an easy yardstick (for example, if you want an employee that can learn quickly, a degree is a signal that a person can learn).</p>
<p>But I agree, lots of money is wasted on unnecessary education.</p>
<p>Well… you can <em>imply</em> causality from correlation. You can’t <em>prove</em> causality from correlation, though, you’re right about that.</p>
<p>I’m just saying that whether it’s chicken or egg, the correlation is interesting. I wasn’t so much talking about accreditation vs. non-accreditation as I was about engineering technology vs. engineering, which is what this thread is all about. I also thought that the statistic about non-degreed test-takers having about the same passing rates as some of the engineering technology majors was notable, too.</p>
<p>This is exactly what I was talking about earlier in the thread when people were fighting so hard about Engineering vs Engineering Technology. People are too hung up on degrees these days but seem to forget many of the smartest people in the world throughout history never had any college degree.</p>
I think it’s low because even if you pass any of the three sections they would consider it a fail… so even when I passed the 8hour and surveying, I was still considered a FAIL… :(</p>
<p>Rheidzan, the only people who have to take the two-day exam are California civil engineers. That’s a fairly small percentage.</p>
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<p>Well, yes, but <em>most</em> of the smartest people in the world in <em>recent</em> history, when college educations are more accessible to more of the general population, have plenty of college degrees.</p>
<p>Now you have to listen to posts that start “Bill Gates and Michael Dell dropped out of college…”. Nevermind the tens of thousands of college drop outs that aren’t well off…</p>
<p>True Bill Gate, Steve Jobs, and Michael Dell did not drop out of college because they could not hand the work. That’s way most people drop out for.</p>
<p>The only other to make good money without going to college is getting into a apprenticeship program.</p>
<p>I have a friend that’s a Too and Die Maker and has been one for 8 years. He gets paid $34 an hour. But now he is going back to college to get an Engineering degree to have a better job.</p>
<p>aibarr, good luck on the PE exam. When I took it in 1990, Maine had just a civil exam, not structural. So I had to learn about pumps and highway design! Then it was funnny, because those questions were easier than the structural ones! I couldn’t answer the structural seismic question, because they wanted us to use a different building code than the one I was used to in the northeast. There was a concrete mix design question straight out of the review book. I felt kind of guilty copying the answer!</p>
<p>DH passed his Structural I test in California (had to go out there to take a hard oral exam), and now he’s thinking about taking the Structural II test. Yikes, better him than me!</p>
<p>Haha yes, You will struggle getting a job as an engineer with an engineering technology degree. Its tough to break into an engineering role with a technology degree!! I would agree with the stigma, managers will ask you “So you want to be an engineer, do you plan on goin back to school?” Sure they look at you as a lesser professional… I have been considered for engineering jobs but never land them and I have done all the right things, that technology degree can hurt your advancement opportunities… But I have seen people with a two year technology degree progress to an product engineer so go figure? I think that I have to go back to school just to shake the technology off my resume!!</p>
<p>Everyone–I go to Wayne State University, BSEET program, we take calc 3 and diff eq, how the hell would you work with signal processing without diff eq? How would you analyze circuits? Whatever though, work hard and you will get what you want. I am a research assistant at my university. I also was just accepted into the MSCE program, I just have to take 8 classes to make up some differences.</p>
<p>Gosh, this thread is almost exactly what I’m looking for as someone planning to pursue a BSEET. Before this thread, all I could find were postings of people misinformed of the difference between a BSEE and BSEET degree that always boiled down to an endless stream of shots at the BSEET. For some strange reason though, it’s extremely hard to find stories or experiences of people that went to college for an Engineering Technology degree of ANY kind. </p>
<p>I’m happy I finally found some information of substance here regardless though. </p>
<p>To start, I’m well aware that that an EET may not make as much or contribute as much say in the design process of an item and I’m TOTALLY okay with it. An EE program is clearly quite rigorous to go through, but if I don’t naturally aspire to be the man at the head of things and would rather bring that guys ideas to fruition, why should I waste my time trying to attain another mans dream degree?</p>
<p>Anyways, I have a question. Are there any ET’s out there that went into their chosen profession because they simply didn’t want to be an engineer? Not because of the hard work required or failed expectations, but simply because that was their true aspiration. </p>
<p>I ask because I hope to be able to pursue this BSEET degree and attain a technician job, then after working in it awhile, I hope to know whether I want to go back to school to attain a true EE degree.</p>
<p>I just feel that becoming a true engineer of any kind is a large step to take. Therefore, if I can work in whatever area suchandsuch engineering degree applies to, I can know for sure that I’ll want to aspire to do more and attain that engineering degree.</p>
<p>I’m still trying to figure out the main differences betwen an EE and EET degree? Is it safe to say that an EE degree makes you an electrical engineer and an EET degree makes you an electrician? Do those with EET degrees serve as assistants to EEs, or do they work independently, like an electrician?</p>
I think that the licensure you pursue AFTER you get the EE degree makes you an electrical engineer. On the other hand, I think that the EET degree makes you a technician that builds the designs created by the engineer and it also makes you a person that assists the engineer in collecting and analyzing data.</p>