BSET -- Engineering Technology ?

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>This is getting out of hand. OK. I give in. Engineering Technology is the same as engineering. ET grads make the same as engineering grads. They take the same classes, understand the same amount of material, and perform the same tasks in industry.</p>

<p>Now, what I can’t figure out is why there are separate colleges (not just programs) at most colleges that offer both degrees, why employers will hire one but not the other for a particular job, why one degree leads to exempt employment but not the other, why the vast majority of graduate schools in engineering accept one but not the other, why the programs that do accept both degrees put the students into different programs, why states will recognize one for licensure but not the other, any why ABET certifies them differently. </p>

<p>At the end of the day, the two degrees are fundamentally different and have fundamentally different purposes. If you wanted to be an engineer, why didn’t you go to engineering school? There are two reasons I can come up with: 1) because you couldn’t get into or stay in an engineering school or 2) because ET fit your ideal career path better than engineering. If you want to make the argument that ET is the same thing as engineering, that just shows that it wasn’t the latter that sent you to an ET school.</p>

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<p>An electrical engineer should be making over $60k to start.</p>

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<p>No one is saying they’re exactly the same, just more similar than some give it credit for. You’re studying the same subject but taking a different approach. And my personal story is that I thought I wanted to go into pure engineering out of High School but upon doing a lot of research into the actual things they do I was turned off. So I enrolled in MET which I hope will allow me to do more hands on type of things within the engineering field, I don’t really care if I’m involved in the initial design, I would almost rather get the prototypes and get to test them and make improvements on the design. But like Ive said in this post it doesn’t really seem like those jobs exist, all I really see are engineering jobs. Now if someone with and ME and another person with an MET degree both get hired for a position, you may be right that the ME gets put into more of the design roll where the MET is placed in more of a technician roll, I haven’t graduated yet so I don’t know.</p>

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<p>You’re not studying the same thing. Engineering is an entirely theoretical approach. You learn and first principals with the goal of being able to use them to explain how, why, and what if. Technology is the application of the principals learned. </p>

<p>It’s like comparing Math and Accounting. Accountants learn arithmetic and apply it. But they don’t understand why math works the way it does. If you ask “what is one?” You’d probably get answer like “it’s a number”. An accountant doesn’t understand what a number is, or where it comes from, they just know what to do with it based on some memorized rules and properties. A mathematician, on the other hand, can explain to you (ad nauseam, probably) what a number is and can prove ideas like addition and subtraction. </p>

<p>So why do we have accountants? Why isn’t everyone a mathematician? Because accounting and mathematics require different fundamental skill sets. If we required all students to learn both skill sets to be accountants (or mathematicians), the average accountant would start his career at age 30. Besides, once an accountant accepts the “rules” the mathematicians set, there’s no reason for an accountant to have to understand the mechanics behind those rules. The accountants should just check with the mathematicians periodically to make sure nothing has changed (“hey, Bob… does it still go 1, 2, and then 3?”)</p>

<p>The problem comes in when an accountant declares himself to be a mathematician and tries to jump into a proof or when mathematicians declare herself to be accountant and starts auditing. That usually doesn’t end well for the accountant or the mathematician. Sometimes they need to understand that there are many things they don’t understand.</p>

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<p>When I was in school, CET is where people drop from CE… not the other way around…</p>

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<p>G.P.Burdell, I’m doing EET because it’s more of what I like to do(BTW for cal 1-3 I had all B’s). I never said that EE and EET are the same. But I do know RF engineers who are design RF circuits, but they did not start out has RF engineers. If they would have had a EE they could have been RF engineers a lot faster.</p>

<p>I know for a 100% fact. That someone with a BSXET and that has worked in the filed for 8+ years can get a job as an engineer. I have 5 family members that have their P.E. and they have an BS Civil ET.</p>

<p>It’s just like some people say you can not be a software engineer without a CS degree. But that is BS. I know lot’s of software engineers that do not have degrees and they make a lot more money than someone with a BSEE or BSEET.</p>

<p>I’m just saying that sometimes there are 2 paths to the same goal. But one will take longer than the other and you will have to work 10 times harder to get there.</p>

146

<p>This just goes to show that you do not understand what engineering actually is. </p>

<p>There are many paths an engineer’s career can take: grunt work, technical work, or managerial work.</p>

<p>ET’s will not be hired for technical work, and are almost never hired for technical management. The entire purpose of the ET degrees is to do the “grunt work” that engineers either don’t want to do or charge too much to do. That encompasses the entire ET career.</p>

<p>Is it possible that an ET does grunt work next to an engineer that’s not technically or managerially competent? Yes. Does that mean either of those two people are actually “engineering” anything? No.</p>

<p>But, we can keep going around in circles, if you want. I find that most 20 year old students think they know what they’re talking about, even if they’ve never been in industry (or even in an engineering class, in your case).</p>

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<p>^^^^ +1. A friend used to have this sign up in his office: “Hire a teenager while he still knows everything.” I think of that when I read a lot of posts on CC.</p>

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<p>G.P.Burdell, if you want to setup a meeting. I could have you talk to someone I know that’s a engineer that has worked for RAC 15 years design audio/video amplifiers, RF circuits and so on. When we was working there he did not have a any type of degree.</p>

<p>Now he was a degree math and is working with high school studnets and his home town.</p>

<p>But this person has an IQ of 120. He also learn a more on outside of college than he could have in the class room.</p>

<p>You should look at the ARRL handbooks. A lot of the designs in those come from people without EE degrees.</p>

<p>So when you are talking about design/engineering work. Are you talk about overall design? Because I know ET that do design work under an engineer. The engineer gives them the requirements and they go from there.</p>

<p>Just to let you know. I work as a software engineer and I did not need a degree to get my job. I starting programming in C++ when I has 9 years olds and reading books on data structures and applying it. So when I started in my EET program I was able tested out of my C++ 1 &2, data structures 1 & 2 classes.</p>

<p>BTW, The other day I got a call. I will be going to the University of Kentucky for my BSEE starting next year. They are transfer 12 credit hours from my EET classes, and all my cal1-4, calculus physics classes, all the general eduction classes( So that a total of (56+ hours).</p>

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<p>Oh please. Get over yourself. I don’t need you to set up any meetings.</p>

<p>The fundamental problem here is that you do not know what engineering is. You may think you know what engineering is, other people may tell you what they think engineering is, but you (and they) simply do not know what you do not know.</p>

<p>Good luck at Kentucky. I’m sure you’ll learn a thing or two about engineering while there.</p>

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<p>This thread has got very nasty.</p>

<p>Look, there’s nothing wrong with an ET degree. Clearly, an ET degree and Eng. degree aren’t the same or there wouldn’t be two different majors in the first place.</p>

<p>When I say that I don’t think IT is as worthwhile a major as CS/SE, I don’t mean that IT is a waste of 4 years of your life. I mean that, all other things being equal, I feel the more theoretical and design-oriented the education, the better. Of course, things often aren’t equal; if a person cannot succeed, or does not have access to, for whatever reason, an engineering program, but does have access to a good engineering technology program (IT included)… there’s nothing wrong with that.</p>

<p>If the person knows the difference between what IT and CS/SE majors find their niche to be in industry, and bases the decision to go into IT on that knowledge… great, and IT is likely the better choice for that individual.</p>

<p>I don’t think it’s fair to say IT programs and CS programs are close to equal in terms of focus or rigor… perhaps there is more of a difference between IT and CS/SE than between ET and Eng.</p>

<p>I will say that engineering majors… and I would like to think CS/SE is better about this, but maybe not by much… tend to look down on other majors, even closely related majors, even things like math and physics (which are, in my opinion, “harder” - whatever that means - than engineering). There’s groupthink that engineering is hard and the noblest major… I don’t get this vibe from most other departments, well, at least not so strongly. Just my 2 cents.</p>

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<p>I think it’s pretty simple why Engineering majors look down on other majors, they are generally smarter than most people in college and growing up so they develop a superiority complex. I know you’re thinking that most Engineers are nerds but hey everyone needs something to boost themselves up. For example I once knew this fat, ugly woman that spent a lot of money on manicures and pedicures because she wanted at least something about her to be attractive lol.</p>

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<p>“they are generally smarter than most people in college”

  • I would take issue with that. Who’s to say that Math majors aren’t smarter? Who’s to say… English majors aren’t smarter?</p>

<p>The feature which I have found to distinguish engineering majors more than any other is that they try harder… in a sense, a good work ethic is a positive trait, but in another, it can make you seem fake.</p>

<p>I guess I can agree that some majors, like English, can attract more people who are just trying to slide by… but I’m not sure the same can be said of the pure sciences, at least, or other things, to varying degrees.</p>

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<p>AuburnMathTutor, your right that IT and CS is not the same. But I now someone who has a M.S.C.S from the University of Utah that did not know how to setup visual studios to point the direct X header and lib files. That’s not a good thing.</p>

<p>I do not have a BS degree right now. But I do work as a software developer. Software development is one of those things that you do not need a degree in most cases. Also you can make a lot of money in short time if you can learn new APIs at a fast pace.</p>

<p>buster, I know people with ET degrees that have their PE. So if someone as a PE they can work as an engineer for a engineering firm or they can start their own firm. Good lucky at U.K it’s a good college with small class for EE.</p>

<p>aarons914, I know what you talking about. One of my friends thinks because he got an A in calculus 1-4 that he should have a job making $30 an hour.</p>

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<p>“AuburnMathTutor, your right that IT and CS is not the same. But I now someone who has a M.S.C.S from the University of Utah that did not know how to setup visual studios to point the direct X header and lib files. That’s not a good thing.”

  • Hopefully, any reasonable company isn’t hiring individuals with graduate degrees in computer science to configure visual studio. I’m sure the individual in question knows more than enough to justify his paycheck.</p>

<p>“I do not have a BS degree right now. But I do work as a software developer. Software development is one of those things that you do not need a degree in most cases. Also you can make a lot of money in short time if you can learn new APIs at a fast pace.”

  • Fair enough, but getting a degree in CS/SE opens more doors than not. I don’t think anybody would argue that getting a degree is a bad idea for most people.</p>

<p>"aarons914, I know what you talking about. One of my friends thinks because he got an A in calculus 1-4 that he should have a job making $30 an hour. "

  • Well, if all he has taken is calculus, he’s probably not worth much to a company. However, my guess is that he took a lot more stuff which built on his knowledge of calculus, and which is useful to a company.</p>

<p>Besides, knowing how to do calculus is more important in life than knowing how to configure visual studio… regardless of compensation.</p>

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<p>That’s true. </p>

<p>I have made B+ in Calculus 1-3. I’m going be getting a BS in Software Engineering.</p>

<p>I’m just saying, that anyone with a BS/MS in CS or SW Engineering. Should know how to setup visual studios.</p>

<p>Yes a degree will open more doors. Right now I have been working as an software developer for 3.5 years. I think when I get my degree along with my work as an software developer it will open even more doors.</p>

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<p>From the bls.gov website:</p>

<p>“In addition to the standard engineering degree, many colleges offer 2-year or 4-year degree programs in engineering technology. These programs, which usually include various hands-on laboratory classes that focus on current issues in the application of engineering principles, prepare students for practical design and production work, rather than for jobs that require more theoretical and scientific knowledge. Graduates of 4-year technology programs may get jobs similar to those obtained by graduates with a bachelor’s degree in engineering. Engineering technology graduates, however, are not qualified to register as professional engineers under the same terms as graduates with degrees in engineering. Some employers regard technology program graduates as having skills between those of a technician and an engineer.”</p>

<p>Take it for what you guys take it as…if that made sense.</p>

<p>O yea by the way, I would like to say that a P.E isnt that important.</p>

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<p>“O yea by the way, I would like to say that a P.E isnt that important.”</p>

<p>NOT TRUE for civil engineers or other disciplines who have to stamp construction documents. Please don’t make blanket statements if you’re not sure they’re true.</p>

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<p>MaineLonghorn</p>

<p>You are actually correct on that one. I realized that once I pressed the enter button that my statement wasn’t 100% true.</p>

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<p>Hi, I just joined these forums so I can provide some input from a recent graduate point of view. I recently graduated from UH - Main Campus in May 2009 with a Computer Engineering Technology Degree. When people ask me what I graduated with, I normally say Computer Engineering for one reason - If I say, I have a Computer Engineering Technology Degree, I usually get another response questioning “What’s the difference between an Engineering and an Engineering Technology Degree,” hence, why I googled the question and stumbled upon this forum. Take what I am about to say as a 4 year journey for a recent grad. </p>

<p>So what happend 4 years ago? All I know is, I loved math. I took Calc BC in high school which was an achievement for me at the time, since all my peers only took pre-calc or finite math. After high school, I started off, away from home at another University, as a CIVE thinking I would design double decker freeways for Houston within the next 10 years. So, I did what most college students did and moved away from home for a year, doing miserably in all my classes, and transferring back to a local school. I tried to transfer as a CIVE initially, but I had to meet certain requirements (making certain grades in calc physics and chem). Now I loved math, I was awesome at it, which means conceptually I was great with Physics as well, but chemistry destroyed me. I was unable to make the grades (B?) for Chem to make it into the program. I sat down and spoke with the Dean of the Engineering College and asked for advice. He said to me “Eric, right now, you are a sophmore. You need to find a major, stick to it, and complete it as fast as possible.” I took his words, and went to the Engineering Technology Department and applied. Of course, everything was a breeze, finished the rest of my college career within 2 years (as apposed to 4 if I made it into CIVE). I have a Math Minor too (meaning I took all those high-level math courses that engineers took as well…Calc 1-3, PDE, Numerical/Fourier Analysis, AdvLinAlg). </p>

<p>I learned alot from Engineering Technology, but nothing that I would use at where I currently work. The main thing that ET taught me was that I was pretty good with leadership and organization. So of course, my degree title had “Computer” and I have over a 3.0 GPA, so I got sucked straight into IT. Not just any IT, a specialized security department that focuses on anything with the word security in it. So now…at age 22…I have a Computer Engineering Technology Degree, working for a decent company as a System Security Analyst (look up their salary ranges on salary.com - I was pretty surpised), and plan to get my MBA soon. So I would say regardless of having an Engineering or Engineering Technology degree, it is what you do with your life and how you do it, that determines your success.</p>

<p>Although there is one thing that bugs me a bit. I personally use maybe 10% of what I learned in college for my day to day work. I spoke with a few Civil Engineers from KBR, and they told me the same thing. Ive heard many recent graduates that enter the work force say they have learned more about Engineering / IT / anything, in the first few weeks of work, than their 4 years of college. Kind of discouraging…</p>

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<p>Eric, you realize that you are not an engineer, right? Regardless of which classes you have taken, you have not graduated from an engineering program, and you do not have the depth of knowledge an engineer would have on the subjects covered. </p>

<p>This is akin to someone concentrating in business law and calling himself a lawyer. Sure, maybe he knows a few things about law, and maybe he is intelligent enough that he could easily gain admission into a law school, pass the bar, and be a lawyer in 3 years, but the fact of the matter is that until he goes through that process, he is not a lawyer. </p>

<p>If you are just talking to some friends or people you briefly met at a bar, sure you can lie to them. Just be very careful in a professional setting.</p>

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<p>There are two types of people in the workforce: doers and improvers. The doers exist to apply a concept: the idea of how to build XYZ or how to run ABC already exists, and the person is just following what has already been established. In that role, education only serves to frame the person’s view of the situation and that sort of person applies little education.</p>

<p>The “thinkers” are the individuals that challenge existing practice. A thinker fundamentally understand the company’s current practice (rather than just listening to what someone tells him) and can see the areas for improvement. A thinker then applies his education and knowledge to enact change and to improve a process or company. Thinkers apply their education daily.</p>