<p>I thought that if you don’t have a PE you can’t call yourself an Engineer PERIOD? Maybe assistant engineer or engineer in training…</p>
<p>I think I can live with not being an Engineer. I am pretty happy with what I do and the amount of money I make at my age. </p>
<p>@G.P., if I thought I was an Engineer, I would say “I am an Engineer” when people ask me about my profession. I am a System Security Anaylst…and pretty damn proud of it. I only say I have a Computer Engineering Degree when people ask what degree I have, becase most people dont even know the difference between Engineering and Engineering Technology. You can calm down, not trying to lie or pretend to be anything I am not. </p>
<p>And for all you old folks out there. I think it would be a good practice if you decided to teach at a later time in your life 55+ or maybe even do outreach programs for high schools. Seems like everyone is too focused on themselves and their six figure income to worry about the future generations. I mean, its cool you lived your life being an Engineer, changing the world, and etc. But it’s time to pass on the torch and the knowledge. You wont live forever.</p>
<p>Sorry guys, this will be my last post. Be proud of who you are…Engineering, Engineering Technology, Liberal Arts, Teacher…doesnt matter what you do. Choose what you are happy with and enjoy life. If you go through life being an ******* and thinking you are top gun, enjoy what is left, cause no one will give a crap when you are 6 feet under.</p>
<p>In Maine it is illegal to call yourself an engineer unless you’re registered. I’m sure the rule is generally ignored, though.</p>
<p>Hmm, EricLau doesn’t mind lying about his degree (and it IS a lie, which more people than you realize would recognize) and then lectures us old geezers about our moral obligations! Kind of cute, really.</p>
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<p>Both the terms “graduate engineer” and “engineer in training” are reserved (varying from state to state) for those who have taken and passed the FE exam (which requires substantial completion of an accredited engineering degree, IIRC); it’s a licensing term. It’s illegal to use those terms if you are unqualified.</p>
<p>I’m not old (unless 27 is old), but I’m in industry, and I’m heavily involved in multiple mentoring and outreach programs. It’s a good thing to do, and everyone should do it. However, it should be done out of the spirit of goodwill, not out of the spirit of “some rather pompous dude on the internet reminded me that I’m a dinosaur who’s going to die very soon, and that I should do something decent with my self-important life before I keeled over, and then he huffed away in a snit because people told him off for inflating his credentials.”</p>
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<p>Actually, that is exactly what you’re doing. Like I said, it’s very similar to someone with a BBA focused on “business law” telling people that his degree is in law. If you’re at a bar trying to impress a girl, it doesn’t really matter that much. If you’re in a workplace, and someone falsely trusts your judgment, then that is a problem.</p>
<p>It’s not about being “high and mighty” - it’s about presenting yourself as being qualified in a topic, when you are not.</p>
<p>@G.P Burdell, you said “Eric, you realize that you are not an engineer, right? Regardless of which classes you have taken, you have not graduated from an engineering program, and you do not have the depth of knowledge an engineer would have on the subjects covered.”</p>
<p>How do you know what he knows? You do not have to take a class to learn something. </p>
<p>I tested out of College Physics 1 &2 and College Chemistry 1 & 2. </p>
<p>Here is an example:</p>
<p>I have a friend that has a B.S in Computer Engineering Technology.
He has been working at Intel for 6 years as a Validation Engineer(Intel calls him a engineer). Making around $90K a year</p>
<p>Ok one more:</p>
<p>My step-father has a BS in EET.</p>
<p>He work as an Signals Analysis Engineer for the DOD(DOD calls him a engineer, it’s also on his GOV ID). Making $$$,$$$</p>
<p>I also know about 10 P.E that have a ET degree. Now I might not know much because I’m just a software engineering student. But if you have a PE you can call yourself an engineer in most states.</p>
<p>I’m not saying the Engineering and ET are the same. But they do overlay. That way some ET can get a PE and why some get jobs at Intel and the DOD.</p>
<p>But most of the people I know that have a Engineering Degree are working as salesmen or mangers. Not many are doing R&D</p>
<p>At my school, there are numerous people who come out with a engineering technology degrees and become engineers at companies like GE, Raytheon and BAE systems. Yes the educations are different but I still believe that if one was to graduate with an engineering technology degree, they can become an engineer. Just like people with physics and chemistry degrees become engineers (my high school physics teacher was a chemical engineer for a while, but hated it so she went into teaching).</p>
<p>Never mind.</p>
<p>To come think about it, my intro to engineering professor is also a professor in the electrical department and he only has physics degrees. Why is that so…because once he finished his Ph.D at Northeastern, he was hired as an electrical engineer. </p>
<p>Sometimes your degree does’t match up with your career. </p>
<p>The new physics teacher at my old high school has a Bachelor in both biology and english and a masters degree in japanesse studies from Cambridge University (UK).</p>
<p>It seems like there is some confusion on here about what an “engineer” is. So let’s start with that:</p>
<p>(1) An engineer is someone who can eventually pass the P&P exam.<br>
This is not a good definition of an engineer. Let’s ignore the PE license for a second, since 80% of graduate engineers do not seek a license and many non-engineers are licensed (it’s just a test - and not even a difficult test).</p>
<p>The assertion was made that someone with an EET degree is an engineer because, after some experience, he can apply for a PE license in some states. The counterargument is that in those same states, someone with no education at all can apply for a PE license with sufficient work experience. So by that logic, everyone is an engineer. The explanation does not hold up.</p>
<p>(2) Someone with a job title of “engineer” is an engineer.
This argument also has a problem. There are plenty of “network engineers” out there with degrees from EET programs or Devry (or no degrees at all). That does not make them an engineer any more than a “network architect” is an actual architect. Why do these job titles exist? Because back in the 1980’s, designing a network was actual engineering. Equipment didn’t exist, so people had to design and figure out how to make things work. So people hired actual engineers. 20 years later, everything is “plug and play”, so all you need is a base knowledge of what things do and a credit card, and you can set up a network. As a result, people do not hire engineers anymore, as this is not engineering work. However, the title has remained. Does that mean that the “plug and play installers” are engineers? No. Their job has changed, but their title has not.</p>
<p>The same thing can be said for many so called “engineering” position. These days, there are a wide range of tasks that were formerly done by engineers that are now computer-aided to the point of not being engineering. Someone with experience in how the software works can run it, get a result, and pass it along. That’s not engineering work any more than using Microsoft Word to create a document is computer programming.</p>
<p>So what is an engineer? Someone who uses fundamental principals and knowledge of a concept to understand how something works, then designs, builds, modifies, or troubleshoots a problem using that knowledge to predict would happen given a change.</p>
<p>For example: let’s say you want to put a piano on the second floor of your house. A person that solves the problem by saying “well, you used to have a 500 lbs water bed there, so a 500 lbs piano should be ok” (i.e. trial and error) is not using engineering. A person hat solves the problem by saying “well, I looked up the code in the book, and it says that given your structure, a 500 lbs piano should be ok” (i.e. using knowledge from others) is not using engineering. A person that pulls out a calculator, determines the load on each of the beams in the structure and how that load will impact each beam, then says “So you can to put up to 800 lbs in this spot” is using engineering. He used fundamental principals (statics) to predict what should happen (if the piano will stay in place) before the change ever happened. </p>
<p>Do EET’s qualify under this definition? No. They primarily follow the practice of being told “if… then…” principals. They cannot predict what would happen if that event had never occurred in the past or if they had not been told. </p>
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<p>I am actually very familiar with UH’s college of engineering and college of technology, as I hired out of that school (both programs). I know what those students are taught, I have experience with 30-50 students from both programs and how they performed after graduation, I’ve meet with faculty, I’ve actually sat in on senior classes in both programs, and I know the curriculum. </p>
<p>The UH engineers tend to be a little more application oriented than I would like from a program, but overall, they are good students. The technology students are also good, but learn nothing near what the engineering students learn.</p>
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<p>This is like a nurse making the claim that she’s a doctor because she’s been in a hospital for a few years. It’s a joke.</p>
<p>Now, am I claiming that an EET is inferior to an engineer? Of course not. EET graduates can make good money and are valuable to many industries, just like a hospital could not run without nurses. But is an EET an engineer? No, just like a nurse is not a doctor. They have different jobs with different purposes (diagnosing patients vs. patient care). An EET that is not an engineer earns nothing by lying about his qualification – all it does is place unreasonable expectations on his ability that he has no means to satisfy.</p>
<p>Well anyone could work out that physics problem that’s had calculus base physics. I have seen EET programs that use calculus base physics1&2(the same classes engineers take.)</p>
<p>But I don’t care that much. Because I’m getting my BS in Software Engineering. But I think a person with a degree in Software Engineering or Computer Science could get the same type of jobs 75% of the time. </p>
<p>It’s like my friend at Intel that has a BS in Computer Engineering Technology. He is a Validation Engineer. He only write code(in C++) that checks to make sure the circuit is working right. But he does not design computer chips. He is more of a Software Engineer that anything.</p>
<p>But I do see what you are saying. Becasue I have seen Software Engineering Technology degrees show up. They are no where close to a Software Engineering degree. </p>
<p>The only point I was trying to make is that some people with ET degrees make more money than some engineers. But this is not always the case.</p>
<p>One more thing. You talked about nurses. You have three types of them. LNP, RN, and nurse practitioner. Now we both now a nurse practitioner is not going to be doing patient care. Sometimes i see a nurse practitioner when I go to see a doctor.</p>
<p>Also most nurse practitioners where RN first.</p>
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<p>I concur (10 char)</p>
<p>Go for ENGINEERING! It’s hard but totally worth it!</p>
<p>Then get a job as a process/project/field engineer…I’m totally with ya… sitting at the office = boring!!! </p>
<p>Management is fun to if you like to deal with people a lot too…or do both : )</p>
<p>Well, that why I’m doing Software Engineering for. The program dose have EAC/ABET accreditation.</p>
<p>I could do a EE or CS program. But I like software engineering more.</p>
<p>@G.P.Burdell, I have something to ask you. When you said “plug and play installers” talk about network engineers. Are you just talking about the people that are installing the network or the people with their CCIE(Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert )?</p>
<p>I would say that your right if your talking about the people that are installing the network. But someone with an CCNP or CCIE is way above a "“plug and play installers”. But they are also not engineers. But they do make great money.</p>
<p>Ok, so I go to Southern Poly in Marietta, Ga for Mechanical Eng. Tech. We have to take all of the same math and physics as Ga Tech except Calc 3. I realize that the technology programs are more practical, hands on based as compared to ME programs. But if I can still become a P.E. in forty states, why wouldn’t I just stay there as opposed to transfering to Ga Tech and getting an ME degree.
P.S. I would actually love to graduate from Ga Tech but Southern Poly is more accessable for someone like me with a job and four kids who is trying to go back to school.
I would just like some input back from those actually in the industry.</p>
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<p>I have over 20 years of industry experience, as well as direct experience teaching at both of those schools. The idea that the only difference between those programs is Calc 3 is laughable. The programs are vastly different and are intended for different career paths.</p>
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<p>In the vast majority of states, you can apply for a PE license with a bachelor’s degree in weather. So using the same argument, why not just get a degree in meteorology? </p>
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<p>The average starting salary for a GT ME is 33% higher than for a Southern Poly MET ($45,000 compared to $60,000 to start). GT ME positions are also almost always professional positions (salaried) while MET positions tend to be hourly positions. ME graduates have more job offers, have more opportunity for career advancement, and have visibility nationally and internationally. SPSU primarily places locally (in Atlanta) and is considered a “decent school” in Atlanta, while GT places all over the country and is known as a world leader in engineering.</p>
<p>I understand the need to be “as good as them” when you’re on the other side of the fence, but there really is a massive difference between the schools and the programs. Anyone that claims that the programs are similar or are even on the same level is either trying to justify their position or is grossly misinformed.</p>
<p>So if I’m an AET will I actually work with the Engine? </p>
<p>What will I do if I’m regular engineer? I don’t want to sit there staring at a computer all day do and checking computer calculations?</p>
<p>First I would like to say that I’m not a engineer. But i do have an A.S in Pre-Engineering. I have did Cal 1-4, College Chemistry 1 and 2, Physics 1 and 2. I also have my CCNA and will soon have by CCNP.</p>
<p>I plan to get an Engineering degree or a Computer Information System degree.</p>
<p>Let look at it this way(this is not the best example):</p>
<p>Someone with in B.S.E.E
Could help with the designing of an better network router/switch.</p>
<p>Someone with a B.S.E.E.T
Could take those routers/switch and design a complex network solution (data,voice,video) for a company.</p>
<p>Someone with an A.S in E.T
Could install the cable and router/switch. </p>
<p>This is one way to look at the E.E Vs E.E.T.</p>
<p>Now I make $55,000 a year with my A.S. Pre-Engineering and CCNA.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input. I wasn’t trying to say that all of the classes were the same except for calc 3, I understand that the meat of the two programs are completely different. My point was for the core classes we have to take Calc 1-2, Chem 1-2, and Calc based Physics 1-2, as well as diff equations. I also realize that Ga Tech is world renown, and Poly is at best a local player. It’s the big deal about the P.E. that I was unclear about. I didn’t realize that practically anyone could sit for the exam. Like I said previously, my goal is to transfer to Ga Tech. Because I had one semester of college ten years ago, Tech requires specific courses to be completed before being elligable for transfer. I should be there in a year to year and a half. Thanks again for the input.</p>
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<p>[Requirements</a> for Licensure as a Professional Engineer](<a href=“http://sos.georgia.gov/plb/pels/require-pe.htm]Requirements”>http://sos.georgia.gov/plb/pels/require-pe.htm)</p>
<p>With an accredited engineering degree, you need 4 years of acceptable engineering experience and EIT certification to sit for the PE exam. With an accredited engineering technology degree or related science degree, you need 7 years. Without any related degree, you need 8 years of engineering experience just to sit for the EIT, and 7 more years after passing it to sit for the PE exam. That’s a big difference between a meteorology degree and an engineering technology degree (8 years). </p>
<p>However, I’m not so sure a technology degree and an engineering degree will provide equal preparation. With 4 kids, I guess the question for you is how much you want to sacrifice for your education.</p>