<p>There have been postings in the past about the fact that Drexel had a qualifying exam which had to be passed before it would allow its BSN students to graduate the nursing program and take the NCLEX exam. I don't think anyone ever posted the stats of pass/fail for this exam, although at one point a few years ago there was a student who was warning others away from the program after having failed the exam. </p>
<p>I just thought I'd mention that my D tells me that Duquesne nursing students were informed this week that Duquesne is implementing the same thing. </p>
<p>D is still happy with Duq's nursing program, and will be starting her clinicals this Fall at a top teaching hospital that is also used by other nursing schools in the area such as Pitt. I have overhead the nursing students complain about finding time for some of the extra requirements (hours in a soup kitchen, observing alcoholic's anonymous and substance abuse support groups, etc.) and the cost of extras like the $80 school scrubs. I will say that they're a dedicated bunch, and the nursing students seem to be really bonded with each other. I suspect that the classes in most 0-4 nursing programs are the same, since the classes aren't huge and spend 4-years together.</p>
<p>It is normal for schools to put emphasis on the pre-licensing exam and work with students who need extra work to pass. It is unconcionable for any college to refuse to give a degree to a student who they don’t think will pass the RN exam on the FIRST try. After all, many students pass the exam on the second and third try, and they can often get some sort of a job with a BSN before they pass the exam. They need that job to pay their bills, and to give them time to study further.</p>
<p>This may be a case where comparable data may be warping the system. Yes, it is good to compare the first time pass rates of various colleges. However, that data doesn’t tell you how many colleges kicked students out of the program right before the exam. If you see a 97 to 99% pass rate, it should make you very very suspicious. The data should also tell the public how many students passed the test on the second try, which may be a more fair and important measurement.</p>
<p>Colleges are also in fear of losing their nursing acredition if there pass rate is too low (I think it is 3 consecutive years under 70%???).</p>
<p>The HESI exam is used by a number of 4 year BSN Nursing Programs. It gives students the percent odds of their passing the NCLEX exam and also identifies areas a student is weak in. Some programs (Drexel and now apparently Duquesne) require students to achieve a certain score before the student will be awarded their BSN degree (which you need to have to be eligible to take the NCLEX exam for students attending 4 year BSN programs). Some schools apparently give students up to 3 times to achieve a high enough score on the HESI. If they are not able to do so they are not given their BSN degree-which means 4 years of nursing education down the drain. I have never seen any statistics published by any school regarding the success rate on the HESI. I do believe the number of students who are not given their BSN degrees because of this requirement is extremely, extremely small or we would be hearing a lot more about this practice. Courses and study guides are now available to help students score high on the HESI. I believe Programs who use the HESI exam in this manner need to inform applicants of this practice as part of the initial application process to the Program (perhaps they do-I don’t know if this is the case).</p>
<p>D says that something was mentioned about the fact that more schools are doing this. I’m guessing therefore that it’s the HESI exam that Mwallendmd describes. D said it was one of many things covered in the “welcome back” sessions, and none of the students seem to be very worried about it. The class of 2014 will be the first ones with this requirement. </p>
<p>When D was looking for her nursing program, we didn’t hear about exit testing until that Drexel student started posting warnings. D had been admitted there with a nice scholarship, but the warnings scared her off. </p>
<p>Even if we had known to ask, the programs might still change. I still feel bad for the students who were stuck when SUNY Buffalo eliminated their nursing school guarantee because they were over-enrolled. Two classes of undergrads were stuck having to apply to other nursing schools. You apparently never know if the requirements in year 4 are going to be the same as the requirements when you choose a school in year 1.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing this NeonZeus.</p>
<p>"Some schools apparently give students up to 3 times to achieve a high enough score on the HESI. If they are not able to do so they are not given their BSN degree-which means 4 years of nursing education down the drain. "</p>
<p>MWAllen, i can’t imagine that any exam failure would render 4 years useless. I’m sure that there a student can wait, then retake at a future date.</p>
<p>cecilturtle:
It is my understanding that if a student does not obtain a high enough score on the HESI exam in the number of times allowed (in schools that require this) they are given a Bachelors Degree in some other science area but they are not given a BSN degree. They therefore are not eligible to take the NCLEX exam and cannot return to the Program at a later date and try to take the HESI exam again. Perhaps this varies at different schools. I understand from a contact I have in Philadelphia that some students who ended up in this situation have initiated legal action against the school because of this practice. I don’t know where this is in the legal system now.</p>
<p>Thank you MwAllen. Great information as always.</p>
<p>Neonzeus -Has Duquesne made this a permanent requirement? Or are they just experimenting with it to see how it works out? Any further information on this would be great since not all of the students have been informed of this…
I find it interesting they would do this with the possibility of attrition rate going up and graduation rate going down, which could look just as bad as low NCLEX pass rates.</p>
<p>D (a Senior) tells me that they are being told it’s part of the updated curriculum. She’s actually jealous of the new classes who are going to be able to take the updated curriculum, since she thinks it’s been improved (even if it’s tougher). Many of her classmates are worried about the exit testing, but they also acknowledge that it’s helpful to assess whether they’re actually ready for the NCLEX and nursing employment.</p>
<p>It would be useful for applicants to know which colleges currently are very strict about withholding a nursing diploma based upon pre-testing.</p>
<p>At my daughter’s nursing program, we were told that if a student does not do well on the pre-testing, they must take a commercial prep course. However, they still get a nursing degree, and have a chance to get a job as a pre-certified employee while they continue to study for the test.</p>
<p>Withholding a nursing degree is particularly unfair since many people who fail the exam the first time pass it on the second try. With a strict policy of withholding the degree, the college looks good numerically to applicants, but their students don’t get a second chance at the exam.</p>
<p>Charlieshm: Agree – can you imagine spending all that money and studying for 4+ years but not getting a degree! Moreover, if a significant percentage of students struggled to pass an exit test, I’d sure question whether the school had done an adequate teaching job in the first place!</p>
<p>D tells me that her school will offer supplemental programs for any student who struggles with the new exit test. I’m not sure how that works, or how much it’s going to cost students who find themselves in that miserable situation. Fingers crossed-so far D appears pretty confident that it won’t effect her, so we haven’t spent much time discussing worst-case alternatives.</p>
<p>Exit testing is definitely something that should be on the radar for potential nursing students though, with the caveat that a program can be changed by the school before graduation.</p>
<p>Schools with exit exams typically test along the way, so the student can be booted from the program at any point where they don’t meet the requirements. D’s school has used two different companies (ATI and Kaplan). I would hope that no school would let a student get all the way to the end and not graduate. Not sure it would be any less devastating to get to the end of junior year and get booted for not passing a high stakes test, either. I sincerely hope schools that use the high stakes testing focus on weeding students out early, when there’s still time to look at other professions.</p>
<p>There are so many possible variations on this theme that it would impossible to list them all here without delineating the Nursing Program curriculums of all 4 year direct entry BSN Programs. I would recommend, before an applicant makes a final decision about where to attend, that they thoroughly review the Nursing curriculum and requirements of the Program they are considering so they are aware of what will be expected of them. Applicants might also want to consider inquiring from the Program if the Program has any plans in the foreseeable future to modify the curriculum or change graduation requirements. At least you could ask. Sometimes applicants can become so excited about being accepted that they don’t even think to review or ask about the above. Then after they start (and become aware of the above as it may apply to their Program) they may find themselves thinking " I didn’t know I needed to do that". Just some suggestions. Good luck to all applicants.</p>
<p>Most nursing programs have requirements about maintaining certain minimum grades in key classes. That is understandable and predictable, and a student typically has a couple months to correct a problem and sometimes can retake a course. How well you will do on a pre-test of a certification test is less predictable. There are 5 to 10% of the graduates at even the best nursing programs who regularly fail the RN certification test on their first try. </p>
<p>However, there are a couple colleges that are not extremely selective in admissions but that somehow seem to maintain a 99% pass rate. I’m guessing the only way they can achieve that is by screwing over some of their students.</p>
<p>I have also been quite concern with this issue.
One of the colleges my D applied to has only a 88% pass rate & the school did not mention using HESI or any form of pre-test in their website / info session.</p>
<p>At many Programs, if not most, you may need to specifically ask about these things if it is not included in a Programs website/description or if nothing is said about it during information sessions. I suspect many Programs want to minimize the potential of “scaring off” prospective students by overtly making information about these things readily available. I would steer clear from any Programs that will not provide you with this information.</p>
<p>Actually an NCLEX first time pass rate of 88% is not bad, especially if it has been relatively consistent for a few years. As noted in another post many students, if not most, will pass the NCLEX Exam on the second try. But you cannot take the NCLEX Exam until after you graduate and have your Nursing Degree.</p>
<p>Thank you very much for the info</p>
<p>Most of the better programs have a 85 to 94% pass rate. Usually the data is provided for the last 3 years, which helps you to see consistency. Many programs had a temporary drop in their pass rate in the last year, which sometimes happens when there is a change in the test.</p>
<p>If a program consistently has a low pass rate, they are placed on probation and can lose their accreditation. Some programs have come out of probation by making improvements, while others have not. One university program in PA (Marywood) had to close last year. If the program is no longer accredited, it can force current students to transfer to another nursing program or find another major.</p>
<p>Sometimes the commuter programs with the oldest students have very higher pass rates. This is not only because the students may be more mature, but also because those students probably had years of experience in health care before or during the time they attended RN classes.</p>
<p>that’s true Charlieschm</p>
<p>Some / or many of the Accelerated BSN programs also have a higher pass rate compared to the Traditional BSN.
A touch more mature + a big dose of determination + more schooling = Helps a lot</p>