<p>Boarding schools which, in my experience, furnished a wealth of accurate & verifiable data were Andover, Exeter, Groton, Deerfield, St. Paul's, Hotchkiss, Milton Academy, Cate, St. Andrew's, United World College, Cranbrook, Culver Academies, Wyoming Seminary (oldest co-ed prep school in the US),St. George's, and several others. Of the 25 schools, three were day schools included because two, Albuquerque Academy and The Westminster Schools in Atlanta, have the two largest endowments of any day schools in the country. The other day school, the all male Roxbury Latin, was used as a benchmark school regarding college placement as it is the best in the nation. My rankings, unlike the WSJ Rankings, include and rate every single US based college placement. The bottom 10% of a graduating class is, therefore, just as important as the top 10%. The WSJ doesn't include Roxbury Latin day school because it only graduates 48 to 49 students a year and the WSJ arbitrarily made a cutoff at 50 students--possibly so NYC schools would lead their survey. The only two totally uncooperative schools were Taft and Peddie, although the head of Peddie sure did like calling me for info. and suggesting tiered rankings. Taft led the stonewalling of info. several years ago when USNews tried to get reliable and verifiable info. from prep schools. Taft's publicly released "brag sheet" convincingly showed it is not a top 15 boarding school re: elite college placement. Can't even get Taft parents to cooperate; but I furnished Taft with my findings and methodology. Essentially this is a consumers right to know and truth in advertising issue. The schools send out "brag sheetes" to get applications and large tuition checks, so why not show what you get for $40,000-$50,00 per year in terms of college placement?</p>
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<p>And, when these schools go to Malcolm X Shabazz HS in Newark, NJ and they look at candidates, exactly what single factor, above all others, will they be able to rely on to decide whether the candidates there will be able to survive the academic rigors of boarding school? </p>
<p>A) The teacher recommendations.<br>
B) The fact that they're near the top of the class.
C) A high GPA.
D) A wonderful, heart-rending essay. </p>
<p>Sorry, amigo, you just made the worst possible case for your position that SSAT scores aren't all that important. The answer is "E," none of the above, for those bubbling in at home.</p>
<p>I have to say, I've done some spreadsheets where top BSs are concerned and I've never seen anywhere close to 50% to ivies. 30-35% seemed to be the most at the schools I've looked at. Where can we find your numbers?</p>
<p>I think amigo is confusing their desired diversity with a cross section of America. These schools have a smaller range of intellectual diversity than most by far. Very few kids can be successful at the most rigorous schools.</p>
<p>Another thing, rican and Caribbean Blacks than Black's with 3 generations in Newark. Among Asians, which are heavily quotaed, you see unusually wealthy Asians. Sure they go to the ends of the earth to recruit broadly, but the resulting classes are shockingly homogenius.</p>
<p>The truth is, most kids from ghetto schools who have not had intervention by a program early on in their education could not survive at Andover. They are still competing with kids who've been to the Country's very best public and private schools since pre school. Kids who were given tutors if that got a B. These schools know who can make it through and who can not. </p>
<p>They pick the best and brightest URMs and athletes. Almost all graduate. I had to ask what an Acheivement Scholar was as the top schools have so many. These are the top scoring Black kids on the SAT. The athletes that get into ivies need a minimum 1300 SAT on the old scale. </p>
<p>They don't need to drum up business in Scarsdale or the like, these people arrive all on their own!</p>
<p>I also like sbergman's replies, but if I read correctly his is a Southern school that does not compete on these terms.</p>
<p>God help me since I am breaking my personal commitment to not answering another one of your silly posts. However, Let me say that since I am probably one of he parents you alluded to in your rant against Taft, that it wasn't a refusal to share information so much as a reflection of the fact that I had no information about Taft students matrics, nor did I care. I didn't then nor do i now see their acceptance level at Ivies or any other school as the measure of their success as a "top school" which you clearly feel they are not. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and you have the right to share it. I too am entitled to mine. Just recently posted on the Taft website was the following good news.... an example of why I feel they are in fact an excellent academic institiution. Like any school they have their problems, but academic excellence wouldn't be the area that I would pick on.</p>
<p>I was happy to see this thread because I have noticed a number of posters who seem to be over-downplaying the SSAT, for both admission and academic fit at the school if admitted. This thread seems to offer a balanced perspective. </p>
<p>D'yer, on the quote "Last year, Hotchkiss' "rejects" included over 200 scores with 99% on the SSAT. (Which is not the same as 200 applicants.) Clearly, there are more important factors that come into play..." are you saying that non-admitted students achieved 200 or so 99% scores (eg, on math) on sections of the SSAT? (believeable, for some kids, 99% on the math is not difficult and hotchkiss gets many applications) Or on the overall SSAT? (less hard to believe.)</p>
<p>ceebrown:
A "high end" boarding school is where you are going to find the most diversity - racial, socio-economic and geographic - of any high school environment in the country. Just look at the financial aid and ethnic stats, and the stats on where the kids come from - both domestically and internationally to prove the point. If "society in this County" refers to diversity, you have missed the mark.</p>
<p>@ Inquiring mind: That's basically the way it was explained to me...and I interpret that as the former. Thus, if someone not offered admission had 99%Q, 95%R, 98%V and 99%Total, that would be two 99%iles...but one applicant. I have no idea why this is tracked. Though it might be something to note to give added context to the shared content data that the SSAT sends the schools...as a way to explain why it would appear that top scorers were slipping through their fingers. (SSAT sends summary data for the previous admission year regarding scores sent to the school, score sent to that school and at least one other school, scores of admitted students, and scores of enrolled students. So if you're not admitting top scorers, that data could be interpreted as showing that the top scorers were deciding not to complete their applications...unless the school itself tracks scores of the students that apply but aren't offered admission.)</p>
<p>I do think my son's school is quite diverse in terms of ethnicity, religion, geography, and to an extent socioeconomic status. It's definitely more diverse than he ever could have been exposed to in his public school, which is 98% white (I think our state is similar). There is probably not as much diversity in terms of academic talent. As another poster noted, they range from the bright to the brilliant.</p>
<p>karatedad: You are being way too sensitive and emotional. My study involves college placement success and nothing else. This is relevant because most boarding schools, including Taft, solicit applications via distribution of college placement "brag sheets" which focus on only a tiny portion of the graduated students in a class. Taft is, and has been, the most secretive school regarding full disclosure of actual college placements; even you, as a Taft parent claim to have no such info., and I believe you. These pieces are often designed to mislead anxiety laden, loving parents to regard the brag sheet placements as typical for all students. My study gives full disclosure of college placement for a particular school's entire class; thus the bottom quarter is just as important as the top quarter. Whether you see this as a truth in advertising issue or simply as an issue of full and fair disclosure, tuition paying parents and students have a right to know the facts. As for your uncalled for derogatory remarks, I forgive you as you are a parent of a day student at Taft and your emotional reaction is understandable. By the way, you were the single most cooperative Taft parent with whom I communicated. Congratulations to Taft School's math team. P.S. I would love to know which prep schools participated in the math competition.</p>
<p>My concern with The Taft School is their apparent policy of secrecy and non-disclosure regarding actual college placements of each entire graduating class. That, combined with Taft's leadership in stonewalling the dissemination of this and other info. to the public and to sources like USNews, raises suspicions and concerns typically associated with policies of non-disclosure without good reason. Eventually, I suspect, this may lead to new legislation mandating disclosure if non-disclosing schools, such as Taft, receive any state or federal funding. Or, possibly, a freedom of information act type legal action. In my opinion, Taft's stonewalling and secrecy risks mandatory regulation of the prep school industry. Several states mandate testing and exit exams of all public schools as quality control incentives. Taft's short sighted policy of secrecy may lead to the same for all private schools enjoying tax free status, and other federal and state subsidies. This may also explain why well over 90% of the private schools from which I sought information so readily complied. Again, this is a freedom of information & truth in advertising type issue which consumers and prospective consumers have a right to know---especially when schools like Taft are being subsidized by our tax dollars via tax free status and possible state and federal subsidies. And especially when their solicitations cross state lines.</p>
<p>Cee Brown
I guess the question is relative to what???? You are highly critical of BS as fostering diverse environments - but what are you comparing them to? </p>
<p>These are high schools we are talking about, not some utopian ideal. The reality is that BS's provide the most diverse (socioeconomic, racial and geographic) environments that the VAST majority of high school students in the country will encounter. I will give you the point that they don't recruit underachieving and unmotivated kids. I don't mind that. </p>
<p>Instead of just being relentlessly negative, why don't you describe your idea of a better alternative/reality? Engineered or otherwise...</p>
<p>Several boarding schools do recruit underprivileged students. Phillips Academy at Andover has long had a program which brings disadvantaged minority students from Houston, Texas to summer programs held on campus in Massachusetts. Many attend Andover as full time students with generous financial aid. St. Paul's School's summer academic programs are only open to New Hampshire public school students. Many elite and lesser known private schools have extensive programs to reach out into less privileged communities. St. Paul's also has an extensive program in hispanic communities in California. There are many other programs which the private schools fund but do not advertise outside of the public schools in the targeted communities.</p>
<p>d'yer, do you have a source for the hotchkiss rejects thing? or similar info for any other boarding school?</p>
<p>Check your PM...but others can probably make an educated guess as to where that information would come from. And no, I have no similar information for other schools, so it's worthless in terms of comparison. And I'm not sure what it really says that's of any value. It just bolsters the point that the SSATs are no guarantee of admission and that, if 99% scorers take a back seat to other candidates, then other factors from the application are weighted more heavily. Just not to the point where the SSAT lacks value.</p>
<p>thanks for the pm. i would imagine the stat is similar for a lot of the top schools, though obviously they would never release that data.</p>
<p>ceebrown: Soon some of my findings will be sent to the Wall St. Journal (WSJ) as an op-ed (opposite the editorial page) piece as several months ago one of their education editors expressed interest in my findings. All of my info. will be shared, without cost of any kind whatsoever, to anyone who PMs me with a specific question. College placement success results were based on the peer assessment scores found in the 2007 edition of USNews & World Report's America's Best Colleges. This standard was used because it rates colleges and universities in groups so that there is no argument as to which single college or univ. is number one, or number 8, etc. The colleges and universities ranked number one, for example, with a peer assessment score of 4.9 out of a possible 5.0 were: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT & Stanford. Each student from a given school in a given class that actually matriculated to one of these five schools earned that private school 4.9 points. All US based college matriculations for each class for up to 5 consecutive years was rated, then totaled for that class, then divided by the total # of graduating students who matriculated at 4 year US based colleges and universities to produce an average rating, which was then used to rank the boarding schools according to college placement success.</p>
<p>The top ten Northeast U.S. Boarding Schools ranked according to college placement success were: 1) St. Paul's School 2) Phillips Academy at Andover 3) Deerfield Academy 4) Groton School 5) Milton Academy 6) The Hotchkiss School 7) The Lawrenceville School 8) Middlesex School 9) Choate Rosemary Hall 10) Phillips Exeter Academy. I calculated raw scores and then converted them to a 100 point based scale for easy "reading" purposes. My conclusion was that for the graduating classes of 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 & 2007 that the top four schools were in a class by themselves ( SPS, Andover, Deerfield & Groton) with respect to college placement success. Hotchkiss & Milton were also outstanding in this category. All ten of these schools are academic powerhouses worth every penny of tuition charged. 15 other schools were also rated and ranked, three of which were day schools. My top ranked school was an all male day school-- Roxbury Latin outside of Boston, which graduates only about 48 young men per class. St. Ann's, an all female day school in NYC, was also a stellar performer.</p>
<p>Icy,</p>
<p>Fascinating. The list is pretty much what one might have predicted. </p>
<p>Can you give some indication of the range from #1 to #10? Is this a difference of 1%, 50%??</p>
<p>Did you look for stability over the years? I would have suspected that, except for St. Pauls, the order among these schools might not be that stable. Since you had several years of data, it might be interesting.</p>
<p>How did you reconcile USNews peer assessment ratings from different sorts of colleges? Did you assume a 4.0 national university = 4.0 masters university= 4.0 LAC?</p>
<p>Did you use the same years for all schools? Some schools report data going back farther than others. If not all for the same years, how did you account for variations that resulted from not looking at comparable data?</p>
<p>Probably not an issue for these schools, but did you exclude people who went to , for example, community college? Did you divided by total number of graduating students, or exclude those who graduated but did not go to college? Did you include people who took a year off before college?</p>
<p>"All ten of these schools are academic powerhouses worth every penny of tuition charged"</p>
<p>Others are not?</p>
<p>I will answer soon. One of my retrievers got out to chase a rabbit and I have to find him before dark or he will run with the coyotes for the night.</p>