<p>My son is having a very difficult time deciding between Bucknell and Penn State. PSU offered himadmission into the honors program, and Bucknell offered him a Presidential Fellowship (work 6-10 hours per week doing research with a professor who serves as a personal mentor). If anyone has any insight as to which is better please let us know. I feel terrible that he must make this incredibly difficult decision.</p>
<p>Also, money is not a concern because both schools will cost the same due to scholarships.</p>
<p>1)have him make a spreadsheet listing plusses and minuses, size, majors, location, atmosphere, etc. etc</p>
<p>2)Flip a coin and if you have a sinking feeling at the result, then you need to go to the other school, your heart is telling you something at a level below your conscious mind.</p>
<p>Both methods sound a little odd, but posters on CC swear by them!</p>
<p>And I don't at all mean to make light of his dilemma, every year a few kids get down to an almost tie (I think sometimes it is a plea for help - "Mom, make this decision for me"). And the 2 methods, the analytical and the coin flip appeal to the heart, really seem to work.</p>
<p>For crying out loud! Academically, there probably isn't a big reason to favor one or the other, unless there's a difference in specific departmental strengths (but you're not telling us about interests). Otherwise, it's a classic case of giant flagship state U vs. liberal arts college, with the added bonus that they're really close geographically and will cost the same. So -- do you want NFL linebackers, really broad diversity, limitless resources, bureaucracy, and TAs? Or do you want intimacy, flexibility, guidance, and professors in the classroom (but a lot fewer of them around)? Do you want to be in a place where more people are doing more research (and aren't being paid based on how well they teach), or a place with less research going on but maybe (maybe!) an easier route to participate meaningfully in some of it, and whose teachers are incentivized to teach? </p>
<p>It's kind of a fundamental difference in everything. One kid can't really be indifferent between them, even if the education is exactly the same. The actual future is unknowable, and of course the same kid could succeed either place and come to love either. But right now, your son has to decide whether he wants one of the biggest of Big State Us or something about the size of some high schools. That's not a choice where there is one right answer and one wrong one. But even a boy ought to intuit which he prefers.</p>
<p>Also -- newsflash! -- navy and white looks good on more people than bright blue and bright orange (Gators notwithstanding). If you care.</p>
<p>What a difficult, but happy, decision to make! I agree with cangel - use some outside method to force the decision.</p>
<p>The opportunities sound equivalent to me, so I can appreciate the dilemma. The academics should be wonderful at both schools - no edge there. Both are lovely campuses, subject to the same central/eastern PA weather, so no tie breaker there. Penn State is HUGE, but the town of State College is a perfect college town, so that could be a tie-breaking factor. Bucknell is greek life driven, so if fraternities don't appeal to your son, then that may be a factor. </p>
<p>So, flip the coin and live with the results. Regardless of the result, the experience will be wonderful for your son.</p>
<p>Oh for gosh sakes, JHS, going to a school with a major athletic team doesn't mean you're in a class full of "NFL linebackers." Especially if the student goes to Shreyer, which is an enormously respected Honors Program.</p>
<p>In all my time in Michigan, I never once met a football player, NFL linebacker-bound or otherwise. And, I had a ton of teachers, who, gasp, were known as good TEACHERS, not just researchers.</p>
<p>Schreyer markets that it's the "best of both worlds" - the resources of a large university and the personal attention of a small liberal arts school. Well - my son is in Schreyer - and while it is an excellent program - you really DO need to be comfortable in a big environment. The kids who do best there are those who actively seek out opportunities -they are there for the taking. If you connect with the Schreyer community - it can make the big U feel smaller. Some honors students do just that - others find different ways to make the place feel smaller (greek organizations, sports teams, one of the many special interest groups).
My son WANTED a bigger school so Schreyer was a good match. For the OP - your son needs to think hard about what he wants- academically and socially. Talk to some kids at Schreyer (the staff will hook you up- my son had lunch with one of the students before deciding). Then talk to the Bucknell folks. You have two excellent choices -what a nice problem to have!<br>
And, oh, BTW, my son is NOT surrounded by linebackers (lol - don't think you'll find even ONE in the honors dorm). But he DOES love PSU football - there's nothing like it in the area. And we love rooting for a new team!</p>
<p>So far:
biggest class 80, smallest class 25
no TA's for his first year
has had 2 "awesome" teachers (high praise for this kid)
very happy and at home in honors dorm with cafeteria...same room next year
advisor knows him, is always available, and has written a rec. for him already
one on one advising, advisor able to get him into closed class
has been offered summer paid REU (research internship)
Feels challenged yet able to have free time for ec's
will have outside mentor starting next year
IS INSANELY HAPPY!!!</p>
<p>Hey, garland, don't typecast me. If I had strong prejudices on Bucknell vs. Penn State, I would make them clear. I think if you go back and look at my post, it's pretty balanced with generic positives and negatives on both types of instutition. (Actually, in all honesty I do have prejudices that I did make clear: I don't think Schreyer is head-and-shoulders better than Bucknell, and lots of other people do believe that. But, if it matters, I would probably choose Penn State in the OP's situation.)</p>
<p>I wasn't suggesting that classes at Penn State are full of NFL linebackers. I was suggesting that you might get to watch them play football at Penn State. (That's something I, at least, would view as a positive factor. But some others, e.g. my children, wouldn't care at all.) </p>
<p>As for the teachers: Of course you had great teachers at a large research university. So did I. But neither yours nor mine were being strongly incentivized to be great teachers. That was just a bonus. Personally, I am skeptical of the value of "great" teachers who are not doing significant academic research at the college level. But so are most LACs -- it's not like they don't require research, it's just that they do care about teaching quality, too, and that produces a somewhat different mix in the faculty. Reasonable students could prefer it either way.</p>
<p>JHS--I read it again, and I still think the line about going to class with NFL linebackers is clearly meant to be perjorative. And, as I've discussed with you before, I think that being a member of a really strong Honors Program with extremely challenging classmates very much mitigates the "big U" issue.
I'd be interested to see an academic profile of Shreyers students vs Bucknell students--for me, the biggest deal breaker is who's sitting in the next chair --for others, of course, that might not matter.</p>
<p>Garland,
I honestly think he meant that, at Shreyer, a student has the opportunity to attend the Penn State football games. It may be hard for you to believe, but this is a very big thing for many students there, and part of the reason for many to choose to attend. I can attest to this personally, since I live in Pennsylvania and a huge number of my kids' friends chose Penn State.</p>
<p>Sigh. Garland, just for that I'm going to stop trying to convince my son to go to Michigan. </p>
<p>Thinking about it a little more, though, I bet you're right that the Schreyer students are, on average, more exciting intellectually than the Bucknell kids, as well as more diverse. And I agree with you that's another point in favor of Penn State.</p>
<p>By the way, I did have classes with NFL linebackers -- actually a future NFL safety in college, and a former NFL linebacker in law school. They were both smart, charming guys and great to have in class. (A little thrilling, too, although the first was years away from his Pro Bowls and Super Bowl ring, and the second had never been a big star as a pro.)</p>
<p>Believe it or not, you have had non-trivial influence on where I think my son should go to school. However, neither you nor I have much influence on where my son thinks he should go to school.</p>