Business Education at Columbia vs Wharton--ED App

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
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Hi Everyone!
I’ve browsed these forums as an anon for a long time–and your advice is simply invaluable!

Most of the Columbia vs Wharton threads on CC have to do with company recruiting–I’m not really interested in that, though.

Out of college, my dream is to start a nonprofit that promotes awareness for social issues (like animal rights). I know Wharton is a great program for this, but I’m concerned that everyone there will be very money/prestige oriented, and nobody will be interested in discussing social issues. (I would definitely double major w/ a liberal arts subject if I were to go to Penn)
I like NYC a lot better than Philly, and I really like the idea of a Core at Columbia. From the admissions session, I got this activist and intellectual vibe that I really liked.

My question is: Is the undergrad econ/finance program at Columbia prepare you to be an entrepreneur as well as Wharton does?

Thanks so much!

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@redoxreaction if you are concerned about wharton being too finance -prestige focused why not also consider Economics at Penn? You can still take advantage of wharton and the resources it can give you ( take as many finance/management classes as you want), get a top 10 econ degree and connect with other CAS students who are bound to be more more socially conscious than many wharton kids (however this is a gross generalization, there are many wharton kids who are interested in public policy and social issues. Look up Penn Wharton Public Policy initiative fir example. And there are many other organizations too. Also penn has a very flexible curriculum and student interaction between the 4 ugrad schools is very big. many wharton, engineering kids have great exposure to liberal arts, and a huge number of them end up double majoring. You can major in whatever you want at Penn and still take advantage of all the unparalleled pre-professional opportunities Penn can give you while getting a great lib arts education. Penn is ranked as the 5th most entrepreneurial university after stanford, harvard, berkeley, Nyu.

Now if you prefer columbia for other reasons, i am sure it provide you with an excellent education and nyc is much better than philly but i am mot sure it can provide you with the same opportunities in terms of practical skills/ entrepreneurial environment.

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Every Ivy education can prepare you well for a multitude of careers. Wharton’s education will be more focused on the practical application of economics in the business/entrepreneurial world. But I definitely would not be worried about the culture dissuading students from talking about social issues. Penn is a place that actively supports its students in the pursuit of goals that don’t align with the culture of money-making and prestige with which it is often mischaracterized.

Check out these projects by Penn students that are supported by the office the University President: http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/news/president-gutmann-announces-2015-president-s-engagement-prize-winners-penn

Or check out the Wharton Social Impact Initiative: https://socialimpact.wharton.upenn.edu/
and the undergraduate advisory board that works to connect undergrads to, and support undergrads in these experiences: https://socialimpact.wharton.upenn.edu/resources/undergraduate/social-impact-undergraduate-advisory-board/

Civic engagement is part of the very fiber that composes Penn as a university: http://www.admissions.upenn.edu/academics/local-and-national-civic-engagement
“More than just philanthropy, civic engagement is central to the intellectual experience at Penn. Whether designing a business model for a nonprofit organization, improving education at local schools, or leading public health initiatives, students apply what they’ve learned in the service of positive change.”

There are a ton of hubs on campus dedicated to civic engagement, especially in the local community. These are two of the better known ones:
http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/civichouse/
https://www.nettercenter.upenn.edu/

And thanks to Penn’s one university policy, you can take advantage of all of it, no matter which school you choose to matriculate to as an undergrad. While it kind of sounds like you’re worried about the culture at Wharton, I can assure you that the divisions between the four undergrad schools largely evaporate once you’re on campus. There is much more of a single Penn culture in which smaller subcultures develop across the schools rather than 4 separate undergraduate cultures that never overlap. By living, eating, taking classes with, socializing, and more with students from across the university, you will never be pigeonholed into being with students with whom you share no interests. And while I will definitely agree that Penn students are far less likely to protest on campus than Columbia students, there is a profound tradition of student activism on campus as well (http://www.thedp.com/article/2014/11/ferguson-fridays , http://citypaper.net/Penn-dining-workers-students-demand-Justice-on-the-Menu/)

I wouldn’t worry about Penn being a place where you cannot pursue your ultimate goals or where you will not be supported institutionally or socially in those goals. There will, of course, be students exclusively interested in ibanking, just like on every ivy league campus. But the medium size of the university and the profoundly different subjects taught across its four different schools attract a certain kind of intellectual diversity the will ensure you have access to the culture of which you would like to be a part.

And I agree with @Penn95 in saying that you may enjoy pursuing a major in the college and taking advantage of Wharton’s many resources and classes in pursuit of your long term goals. You can always take classes at Wharton in Business Economics and Public Policy department which often offer courses related to non profits or join any Wharton clubs that interest you without being enrolled in Wharton. Or you could, as you suggest do a dual degree. Or, since Wharton students take up to 40% of their classes outside of Wharton itself, you can use the benefits of the flexible curriculum to feed your intellectual passions. And don’t forget about options to minor in other schools or to do a University Minor that will bridge together the faculties and programs of two schools.

Also, my heart (which is actually just a cheese steak inside of my chest) is compelling me to publically state that Philly is different than New York-- but having lived in both, neither is superior. But they are certainly different. If you prefer New York, that’s a different story :wink:

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Thanks so much to both of you for your in depth replies! I really appreciate the time you have taken to help a complete stranger. I am certainly leaning much closer to UPenn now.
I have a couple, if you have some time to answer them.

  1. Is it difficult to double major in CAS if you go to Wharton
  2. What benefits exist from going to Wharton as opposed to CAS for an econ major?
  3. Does Wharton have a party-hard culture or is it more intellectual? How does this culture compare to UPenn as a whole?
  4. How safe is Philly? Are there shopping malls/grocery stores/pharmacies I can go to off campus that are safe?
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@redoxreaction no prob at all! hope it helps!
so to answer your questions:

1)Generally double majoring at Penn is demanding and time consuming but it is nothing that serious and motivated students cannot handle with a lot of work and perseverance. As a wharton student is is relatively easy to do a double degree with CAS (if you have a 3.0 or above it is not a problem) . CAS as a school has more requirements than Wahrton so your workload would be prob heavier than if you did like a double concentration within Wharton, but i think it is worth it.

2)I dont thaink there many many benefits of doing one vs the other. Because of Penns lack of a core, students have flexibility in taking many classes from any of the four undergraduate and evengraduate schools. Penn has the so called one university policy which means regardless of the school you are enrolled in, you can take as many classes as you want in another school. So for example as an econ major at CAS you can supplement your econ degree with as many Wharton classes as you want and vice versa. So you can get a unique balance of per-professionalism and lib arts that is unique at Penn. in terms of recruiting, all penn undergraduates have access to the same recruiting opportunities and do equally well (you can look at the career stats in the penn career services website). Also the Penn student body as a whole is quite entrepreneurial. The guy who came up with Venmo for example was a creative writing/philosophy major.

  1. I do not think the different undergraduate schools at Penn have starkly different cultures, but rather that there is a unique, distinct Penn culture. Yes Penn is more social than the rest of the ivies, and to a reasonable extent there is a work-hard-play hard culture, but a huge number of people are involved in politics, social advocacy etc. Obviously it is only natural that as a whole the CAS student body is a bit more intellectual than Wharton, but what is unique about wharton is that a huge part of the students are not automatons just interested in landing the prestige finance job but have diverse interests and passions–this is because wharton students are easily able (and strongly encouraged) to get a high quality liberal arts education along with their pre-professional degree. (same goes for engineering students).

4)Philly is a big city as naturally there are parts that are safe and parts that are not. The campus is safe and there is Penn police in virtually every block on campus. of course as you go further west outside the campus, the ghetto begins, but i dont see why you would ever need to venture out. you have everything you need on campus: supermarkets, cvs, many different places to eat even an urban outfitters and gap (if you need to go shopping you can go to center city around rittenhouse square which is a very nice neighborhood).

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I’m glad to hear that we’ve been able to alleviate some of your fears! I really do think Penn provides an unparalleled set of educational and social opportunities that make for an outstanding and incomparable undergraduate experience.

  1. I have many friends who did uncoordinated dual degrees between Wharton and the College. Penn definitely has the infrastructure in place to support you in pursuing a dual degree which makes the process fairly easy and streamlined. As @Penn95 has mentioned, it will require diligence and careful planning on your part but it is by no means a prohibitively difficult process. I know many students who have taken on dual degrees and really enjoyed their experiences.
  2. The benefits will mostly depend on what you want to study. Wharton only offers a BS in Economics which is actually more of a Bachelors in Business Administration despite it's name. In order to major in Economics as it is traditionally understood, you would have to major in the College. The benefit of being in the College would be the ease with which you can major in the liberal arts and sciences while still supplementing your education with more directly applicable business courses in Wharton. The benefits of being in Wharton would be the ease with which you can concentrate in a field of business while still supplementing your education with liberal arts and science courses. It really depends on your intellectual interests and proclivities. As @Penn95 said, all Penn students have access to the exact same resources, career services, classes, etc. so you won't notice major differences in your Penn experience as a whole. The differences will be felt in how you organize your individual curriculum.
  3. Wharton doesn't really have its own separate party culture. Because all of Penn's undergrads live together, eat together, and take classes together, regardless of school, major, or other differing characteristic, Penn has a much more cohesive culture that spans all four undergrad schools. Penn as a whole is definitely a social place but that takes on a huge number of meanings depending on who you are as a person. If you really want to be involved in fraternity/sorority life, then that's definitely an option (just under 30% of Penn students join Greek life, over 70% do not). If you want to find friends to go see a movie at the cinema next to campus or to go check out a new pop-up restaurant in a park in center city, that would be easy as well. Penn's medium size makes it so that there is a genuine diversity of students with many different social interests. The robust campus life provides more than enough school sponsored activities for you to take advantage of without ever feeling bored or like you need to go to a fraternity party or to a club downtown. But Philly's vibrant nightlife and Penn's exciting party scene ensure that there is always something wild you can get yourself involved in if that's what you're feeling that night. But plenty of students are down to watch Netflix and order in dinner if you've had a long week and just need to unwind. Finally, the extracurriculars you join will provide you with social circles that are closely tailored to your interests. The debate team throws parties and the rugby team will grab dinner downtown. It all depends on what you want to make of your night and with whom you choose to spend it.
  4. Philly is definitely safe, especially around campus. Living in New York now, I do not notice any difference in my safety. Penn has a large campus and the surrounding area is patrolled both by campus police and the Philadelphia police department. It is still a city so you will need to keep your wits about you when you leave campus but I have never felt unsafe in philly and I was definitely someone who enjoyed exploring the city and getting off campus now and then. University City, Center City, Old City, and South street are some of the most popular places for Penn students to explore and all of them are very safe, well lit, and full of people. Additionally, if you ever DO feel unsafe, which is unlikely, you can call Penn Rides and they'll pick you up or you can have a Penn Security guard escort you to where you're going on campus. Campus itself, however, is extremely safe and sometimes you can forget you're in a city because it's so beautiful and distinct from the feel of urban life. Sitting in the Quad or on College Green can be like relaxing in a suburban garden and yet America's 5th largest city is just beyond the edge of campus. Plus the New York Times thinks you should visit: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/01/11/travel/52-places-to-go-in-2015.html?_r=0

Finally, I love sharing this video because even though it’s getting a little outdated, I think it does a wonderful job explaining what life can be like at Penn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGpOizUIY60

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Wharton, you will get a BA in business, Columbia you will get a BA in economics.

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If you are primarily interested in becoming an entrepreneur more so than in getting a prestige degree you should check out Babson College.

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@ricck1 @redoxreaction At Penn if you are in wharton you will get a bachelor of science (BS) in economics (essentially a business degree but they call it that for historical reasons). If you major in Economics at CAS you will get a Bachelor of Arts(BA) in Economics (this is the traditional economics degree equivalent to the Economics BA at Columbia)

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Wharton gives you a BS in Economics. It is very different and much more applicable than a BA.