I’m going to be finishing up my required classes at my state college, and am considering transferring. One of my friends who is Mormon and knows of my athiesm talked to me about BYU. After looking it up, the tuition rates and honor code are actually quite appealing, as well as the obvious academic prestige of the college.
I’m wondering if, as an athiest, I could possibly enjoy or benefit from going there as opposed to a non-religious private university. I consider myself open minded and enjoying learning about the beliefs of others, I just don’t want to be treated like a freak or be bombarded by people trying to convert me.
Can you visit? I’ve been to a fair number of colleges and apart from Oral Roberts, BYU was the most religious school I’ve ever seen. I’ve known three less active Mormons who go/ went there and all hated a number of aspects of the culture.
It seemed to me that BYU can’t quite grasp the concept of anything outside Mormonism, let alone atheism. For example, you need an ecclesiastical endorsement from your local bishop or, if you’re not Mormon, the equivalent in your own religion. No provisions given on what if your religion doesn’t have an organized leadership structure, let alone what if you don’t even have a religion. I got mine by visiting my local Mormon congregation and talking to the bishop there, which sort of defeated its purpose (the Mormons have a very close-knit community; the local bishop is supposed to already know the person who’s seeking the endorsement and able to judge whether that person is of good enough character for BYU).
Personally, I don’t see any benefits from going there from a religious vs. non-religious viewpoint. It is very, very Mormon, so you’ll definitely learn all there is to know about their beliefs. As for being treated like a freak or being bombarded with conversion attempts, it really depends on the who you come across, as well as how much and how deeply you are willing to socially interact with them. I’m a massive introvert with huge social anxiety issues; I didn’t mix around much and so I never really felt pressured to convert nor was I ever ‘treated like a freak’ (well, the people there are really nice, so I doubt they would have anyway).
The main benefits of going there are the low tuition as you’ve already mentioned, and some really good degree programs (most of the business degrees, animation… I’m sure there are more worth mentioning).
And regarding whenhen’s post above, I always felt it was better to be a total outsider (i.e. non-Mormon) than to be a less active Mormon in BYU. We aren’t held to the same standards. Well, officially, the only difference in standard is you wouldn’t be expected to attend church every Sunday; but from a social standpoint, I felt easier about being myself without being judged. For example, I could announce to friends that I just drank coffee and they’d laugh, whereas a Mormon might not do that for fear of being ratted out.
Well, I stand corrected from a social standpoint at least.
@Unaffiliated What about the coursework at BYU? How much does religion enter into courses, particularly the sciences? Are the courses still equivalent to a secular/less religious university or is it more like Liberty in that regard too?
In addition to the endorsement issue, I would wonder whether you would be comfortable when people ask you about religion? I don’t image that you can just say you are an atheist at BYU.
I’m an atheist, and religious schools were completely off my radar when I was searching for schools. At many schools it really isn’t an issue at all. Participation in the religious aspects is mostly optional, aside from requiring a couple of world religions type courses that are simply examining religion from a cultural and philosophical perspective, but not really endorsing a religion as being “the correct religion” or anything like that. Other schools, like Liberty, are far more strict about religious requirements and obligations. Church attendance is mandatory, actual bible studies courses are mandatory, etc. I’m not really familiar with BYU, so I can’t really speak to the nature of these things there. However, an ecclesiastical endorsement may be difficult for you to get. Personally I’d cross it off of my list.
We know of 2 non-LDS who got athletic scholarships to BYU and attended. The first had no previous exposure to the Church, but he was a Christian (not atheist). He told us that his first Sunday there he got up and went out to round up a group to go play some kind of sport, only to find out that Sundays are completely reserved for church and family/friend activities (no sports, shopping, birthday parties, preferrably no TV, etc.). He actually ended up marrying a girl he met there and converting. The other did graduate from BYU but had a very hard time adapting to the lifestyle. We live in an area that has a fairly large Church of LDS community. Their church has such a heavy presence in their day to day activities that I think it would be very difficult for an atheist to attend BYU. I do like the fact that their Church encourages such a family atmosphere, but many of those I know have a hard time understanding anyone with beliefs other than what they hold.
Is the honor code not that strictly enforced? I would imagine that it’s difficult (or nearly impossible) to monitor and would rely entirely on other students reporting you. I imagine it would be extreme to sanction a student who had a cup of coffee or didn’t attend church every Sunday, but it is technically breaking the honor code. OP, I know you said the honor code is appealing, but as an atheist, I’m not sure how much you’ll get out of participating regularly in church services.
My first job out of grad school was at BYU, so these thoughts come from that:
You'd have to be able to deal with the fact that Mormonism is front and center. This goes beyond the point of things like crosses at Catholic schools—the Mormon-ness of the place permeates everything. Classrooms are converted to church meeting rooms on Sundays. On weekends, some faculty offices (this was the case for mine) are used as offices for ecclesiastical leaders. Some faculty (though not as many as you might think) begin classes with prayers. Every Tuesday morning the campus comes to a dead stop for a "devotional", which is sometimes a speech by an important visitor (Sandra Day O'Connor spoke at one while I was there!), but much more often a Mormon church leader. And so on.
A side effect of (1) is that there is no access to coffee (or non-herbal tea) or alcohol on campus—and while visitors can bring coffee with them, students and faculty have to forego it their entire time there. If you like your proscribed beverages, well, then…
The Mormon-ness of the place goes beyond things like (2), which at least has a rationale in the Mormon canon for it—you can't purchase any caffeine-containing beverages on the campus, either, even though that's a cultural thing (and certainly not a universal one) among Mormons. Go figure.
All that said, about 5% of the BYU student body (and 1–2% of the faculty) at any given time is not Mormon. It's a decent-sized school, so you would certainly not be alone, though actual atheists are quite rare on campus. Mormonism is a very missionary-minded religion, though—you'd have to be okay with polite but persistent attempts to convert you. (It's so baked into the religion, I think, that in some cases the people doing that don't even realize that's what they're doing.) A good number of followers of Islam are among that 5%, by the way (shared prohibition on alcohol, similar views on a lot of behaviors)—I learned more about Islam, and was more impressed by that faith, during my time at BYU than any other period of my life.
The Mormons at BYU tend, at a vast-majority level, to be quite devout practitioners. You'll have to decide whether you find this a positive or a negative. (Myself, I went into my employment there dreading it, but found it to be quite refreshing and invigorating in a very real way. Go figure.)
You'd be living in Utah County, Utah. The way I heard it described once, Salt Lake City is Mormonism's head, but Utah County is its heart. It's also a very normative region, which can be stifling. Salt Lake City isn't nearly as bad, though, so there's that.
All that said, it was a fabulous place to work, and if I hadn’t had to be in Utah County (or if commuter rail had been in place at the time, so that I could have lived in Salt Lake City) I’d probably still be there today. It’s a great school, really—but I certainly wouldn’t attend there as a non-Mormon without a visit, preferably an overnight while school’s in session.
(Oh—and if you do decide it’s for you, a hint: For those non-Mormons who weren’t affiliated with a church, the most usual route to an ecclesiastical endorsement that I heard of was via a minister from their local Unitarian Universalist congregation.)
@iwannabe_Brown “What about the coursework at BYU?”
I graduated in 2013, so the following info is correct assuming nothing has changed in 2 years. For GEs, 14 hours of religion credit is required (most religion classes are 2-credit, so 7 classes). 4 of those credits must come from 2 Book of Mormon classes (Parts 1 and 2), and you don’t get a separate class specially for non-Mormons. They’re usually super easy, just a matter of whether you can stand being in “Sunday School”. 2 credits can (and should) go to an Intro to the LDS Church class specially for non-Mormons, the only one of its kind as far as I know. The remaining credits are electives, and you can use them on more educational (as opposed to spiritual) stuff like World Religions.
For non-religion classes, it varies with the class content. I was an accounting major and math minor, so I didn’t get much Mormonism in most of them. At most, some profs hold a prayer to open each class. Also, with 14 credits going to religion, that’s less space for arts and sciences. The science classes I took were just math and bio (there was also a physics requirement but I “cheated” my way through an exemption exam). I remember the bio class having a special session on evolution which I didn’t pay much attention to, but I think it was mainly attempting to reconcile the apparent contradictions between religion and science on that topic.
Other than that, religion only sometimes enters the classroom during non-religion classes, and that’s simply because 98-99% of the class (http://yfacts.byu.edu/Article?id=135) is Mormon. You’d see this more in arts and humanities classes, where the class content is more likely to have parallels with something Mormon. Usually nothing more than the prof or students making some Mormon reference in class (something like “this reminds me of when the Nephites… in the Book of Mormon”), and everyone but me knows what they’re talking about.
I’ve heard of Liberty but am not familiar with their curriculum, so I cannot make the comparison myself. From what I’ve heard it comes close to BYU in terms of being overbearingly religious.
All of these have been very helpful (glad I could get a discussion going), and I doubt I will be attending. I will have to speak more extensively with some people I know who have/are attending, and do some more research before I decide one way or another.
I can not see it as a good fit for an atheist. I visited Salt Lake City this summer, not a LDS, and found it to have a very strange vibe for a good sized city. I would certainly do an overnight or weekend, at the least, visit before committing to anything.
Since the OP is planning to transfer, I should clarify something in the previous post about religion class requirements. It’s 14 credit hours if you start as a freshman. The number of credit hours required goes down proportionately depending on whether you transfer in as a sophomore, junior or senior.
Also one warning: If, for whatever reason, you convert to Mormonism before graduation, DO NOT backtrack on that decision until you at least graduate AND receive your certificate. Basically, Mormons who leave the church while still students of BYU will not be able to continue their studies.
But I’ll end by saying BYU is not all bad. Provo (and the whole of Utah) is a really nice place and the people there are equally nice. My negative experience there was mostly due to my own social anxieties and personal insecurities. I know many other non-Mormons there without such problems and they loved it; it’s mostly a personality issue. Additional pros: Flexible academic calendar, a very wide recruiting network (at least for business school, they have recruiters come from all over the country), and I don’t know if you’d consider this a pro, but I often see Provo near the top in lists of growing American cities, so there should be no shortage of career opportunities (that is, if you’re willing to stay in the Provo area).