^^^Berkeley is expensive too for an OOS student.
Yes, Berkeley is a public school. And definitely expensive for an OOS student. Are there any other schools still in consideration ,either public or private, maybe with merit aid, that would be less expensive? If you are very affluent though, may not be an issue.
We do have a younger child. We have told both we will pay 4 years but can’t pay 7/8 years each. S took Michigan off the table because out of state, it costs about the same as Berkeley out of state. S rather go to Cal. Michigan, Cal and CMU will not give any merit aid and we can’t get need based aid. S read this post and said I should mention two points. At all these schools he can graduate in 3 years because of all his AP credits. Also, we learned he can get a TA position at Cal sophmore year. These two points will bring down costs significantly. Will this change anyone’s mind who are pro UMD?
No, but he seems determined to not go to UMD , and that is a hard thing to get past. You might want to double check on whether or not all AP credits will be accepted at the other schools. And make very sure he understands that the money stops after undergrad and that you have his sibling and your retirement to consider as well.
Be careful about assuming that AP credit will make it easy to graduate two semesters early. Check how they apply to subject requirements, not just number of credits.
Also, does he want to have to graduate early, versus being able to take more in or out of major electives?
Also, do not count on getting a UGSI job at UCB for CS 61A as a sophomore. Preference for such jobs goes to juniors and seniors by semesters attended, among other requirements. https://eecs.berkeley.edu/resources/gsis/prospective/ugsi
It may look like he can graduate in three years, but it’s HIGHLY unlikely. Even if he walks in with 25, 30, even 40% of the total credit volume, he’ll have to take certain classes in strict sequence, and some of them will only be offered during specific terms that might not align with his progress.
My son started with quite a few meaningful hours in mechanical engineering. He tested into Calc III, Physics II, and completely out of Chem and several GEs. He printed his curriculum sheet and traced through all of the prerequisites from senior project, backwards through his entire curriculum, to plot the most efficient path. There was no way to cut it below 4 years. He took a couple of light quarters (12 hours) and still only had 15 of 45 quarter hours left his senior year. The problem was, half of them were senior project. He decided to use his time taking graduate classes and will walk with a BS/MS in about 4.5 years.
What ends up happening in an engineering curriculum is that a lot of the GE hours go unused.
Graduate in 3 years at Cal? No way. In state students in California can barely finish in 4 years because of impacted majors. I don’t get the allure of Cal… huge classes!
I don’t get the allure of Cal either at $57,700 vs. $0 . But I am not the kid or the one paying the bill!
Actually, graduating in four years from UCB is not generally a problem. Majors are impacted (limited in enrollment) so that the departments can offer all of the students in the major the courses they need.
Also, there is a very good chance that Amazon is going to put HQ2 in Nova/Montgomery County, MD. All the CS schools in the area will immediately become HOT HOT HOT. Internships galore.
Personally I never understood the allure of Cal either. The classes are giant (Intro to CS is the largest lecture in the nation with over 1000 students) and they rely heavily on TAs for instruction. The campus is amoeboid with pretty parts, but no clear edges. I guess it’s all very personal. They do place CS grads into great jobs and the graduate school is one of the best in the world.
Congratulations to OP.
if you do not mind, can you share the process of applying for full ride scholarship for UMD.
Did you apply for scholarship or automatically considered for scholarship based on test scores and GPA?
is UMD known for giving scholarships to out of state students too?
Our UC schools have huge lecture halls and classes do get into the hundreds, often, for prerequisite courses.
If your son plans to do post grad work, will he have access to profs for LORs?
My dd had a lot of GAs teaching her courses.
Oh, and Cal is UBER competitive.
You plan on paying for that^???
Paying 60K for a school like UCB where the vast majority are paying less than 25K (Cal residents) is crazy to me. I totally get why California students want to go there (cheap and high ranked and close to home) and they live with the cons - huge classes, impacted majors, geographically homogeneous student body, etc because it’s highly ranked and cheap. At least at CMU, you are paying for a private school experience. Smaller classes, plenty of sections, geographically diversity, etc.
CMU SCS computer science courses do not appear to be that small, according to the class schedule, which lists many of them with several discussion/recitation sections associated with a lecture: https://enr-apps.as.cmu.edu/open/SOC/SOCServlet/search .
Students going into CS at a highly selective state flagship or private school known for CS should not be surprised that the popularity of the CS major means large classes. Even places like Stanford and Harvard (700) and Harvey Mudd (200) have large class sizes for their introductory CS courses.
CS has exploded in the last few years . It has become very hot.
Had a busy day yesterday. Drove to CMU early ran around campus to 6 different tours/info sessions/meetings and drove back. On the drive back S and I had a long discussion. More on that below.
@eyemgh You are right the intro classes are large at Cal. Monday we learned some of the intro to CS classes are 1800!!! Yes 1800 students in one class. I asked how large are junior EECS classes he said some are 600 students. Upper classman classes with 600 students! I thought this was insane. Looks like S can graduate in 3 years at CMU. We went over all of S AP’s and grad student showed us how each AP will eliminate a class requirement. We are verifying this with a CMU ECE advisor. Grad student pointed out with taking just 8 more classes S can graduate with a master’s in 4 years. This sounds very appealing.
@suzyQ7 Yes, Amazon is coming to MD. Reminded S.
@learning19 S received the Banneker Key scholarship at UMD. There is also the Presidential scholarship. Yes, out of state can get merit scholarships. For the BK full ride you need to be about top 250. Apply by Nov 1st and you will be considered for all scholarships. We received notice around early Feb for the interview. 400 get the interview. 150 get the full tuition. 250 get the tuition/room/board/books. S interview was late Feb. Panel of 2 interviewed S. S said they asked very insightful questions. They had complete knowledge my S’s application. I heard you need to have wide variety of AP’s not just in your area of interest. For example, my S wants to study engineering. Not only does he have lots of AP’s in math and science but also in history and English. Need perfect or close to perfect stats, strong EC’s and solid essay. There is a CC thread on BK. Search: Banneker Key 2022 Discussion. Good luck!
I think I have a slightly better understanding why S does not want to go to UMD. At all the schools there are lots of group projects ie in lab break outs of engineering classes, senior project, Honors group project at UMD. In those group projects S does NOT want to be the one carrying the project. He hates being the one most interested. He has had this complaint most of high school. He has said several times throughout high school he does not like being the smartest student. He wants to feel like he is in the middle of the pack not at the top.
S said even his smart friends who end up at UMD become unmotivated. Program is too easy so they have lots of time playing computer games. His friend at CMU is so busy because the work is very hard he has no time to play games. All the students around him are motivated/driven and are not interested in playing games. He says this is the type environment he wants to be in.
S has a teacher he highly respects (and I highly respect) at his high school. I suggested meeting with this teacher this week and lay out all the options and listen carefully to what he says.
I have come to the conclusion I will not twist his arms and force UMD on him. I do not want a bitter unhappy college student. Fortunately, we are in the position he can go to the college he wants to (unfortunately this may mean he does not get JD/MBA later on). Ironically, because we told S our only requirement in his college applications is that he must apply to UMD and then he received this scholarship we are in this predicament now. Isn’t life fun?
My dilemma: As a parent is it my responsibility to listen to S and have confidence his knows what he wants or is it my responsibility to force what I believe is best for him and he will (hopefully) come around to see the logic 4 years from now.
Thanks for the update! Is UCB off the table?
@suzyQ7 Your post yesterday about UCB was right on point. I absolutely agree with you. S still loves the weather, energy and location to tech but I believe your points trumps S’s points. For me it’s sliding off the table.
I’m a huge fan of Cal. (Alma mater.) I really think it’s one of the most exciting schools/areas you could pick to go to school. I have family members that recently graduated from Cal and had no problem doing it in 4 years. (One was able to graduate a semester early, in fact.)
That said, given the choice between Cal and CMU at a similar price point, I totally see CMU as a rational option. CMU is a renowned science and tech school that would offer a more personal, personalized education and likely easier access to faculty and research. Cal is notorious for its bureaucracy and minimal customer service, something frankly you should expect when paying over $50K per year.