<p>So I was admitted to CoC as a Chemistry Major, but now i'm having second thoughts - would chemical engineering be a better choice, career-wise?</p>
<p>Also, how does the intensity of the two compare? Which one is harder?
I dunno, I just feel that "Chemistry" by itself would not be as applicable as Chemical Engineering after Berkeley, job-wise.</p>
<p>besides that, i've been hearing NIGHTMARES about berkeley's chem courses, especially 4a. What exactly is involved that makes it so difficult(labs, problems, ??)</p>
<p>Chemical Engineering is the better choice if you want to get a job straight out of graduation, i.e. you don’t want to go to grad school. </p>
<p>Both Chem and ChemE are hard. Which one is harder for you depends on what you’re good at. Chem includes ochem, ichem, pchem (quantum and theoretical), and achem. Chem is, on the whole, much more theoretical in my opinion than ChemE. ChemE’s probably better for you if you like calc, physics, “problem-solving” type things. It only requires very basic chemistry concepts. Everyone in CoC has to take 112A anyway, so you have some time to figure out what you like.</p>
<p>The 4 series has ridiculous labs that are barely worth any points and take hours. As compared to 1A, the material is more extensive and intensive, the curve is harsher, and your classmates will be quite a bit better at chemistry. You will bond with your fellow CoC students over the lab reports, though. I also feel the quality of the professors and GSIs is not as good as 1A, though your mileage may vary. In my experience, the 4 professors were very disorganized and not too capable teachers. The upper-div chem professors, however, are utterly amazing on the whole, and more than make up for that miserable first year. Many people drop out in the first year, though, so they never get to experience that.</p>
<p>You may be able to switch at CalSO, and if not, after first semester (if you’ve survived 4A and decided you still want to do it). It doesn’t really matter at this point, though, since you’ll be taking the same classes you would as a Chem major for the first year and first semester of the second year (with the addition of Chem E 140).</p>
<p>So for the Chem 4 series, we’ve had four instructors: two professors and two doctors (supposed to be 3 professors, but Saykally was out for our semester, so less explosions for us, I think). The first professor, Head-Gordon, was amazing both in knowledge and presentation. The other three, however, haven’t impressed me (okay, there are those who say Dr. Douskey’s amazing, but I don’t think so). What made Chem 4A particularly hard for me were the labs (and my GSI…).</p>
<p>But enough about the Chem 4 series. So yeah, feel free to ask around about chem vs. chemE. Maybe you can see what chemE’s do in Chem C96 (immensely boring and may misrepresent some interesting research with dry powerpoint lectures, but I did get to see what chemE was like… not what I was particularly interested in).</p>
<p>Oh my god. Chem/ChemE C96 was…ugh. There are no words for it. Remember the time our homework question was something along the lines of, “How would you approach developing a method to cure cancer?” I was seriously like, okay. I have no idea how to cure cancer. I think you’re asking for too much. </p>
<p>Head-Gordon’s chalkboard notes are incredible. Dr. Dhillon and Dr. Douskey were decent, if not good. Douskey in particular is very helpful during office hours (never went to others’, so I can’t say how helpful they are).
I miss how organized the chalkboard was during chem 4A…not the case in 4B, especially for Moretto. He writes down only diagrams and equations and speaks the rest…sucks if you aren’t able to catch what he says. He is undeniably entertaining with his stories, though. However, at times one may wish he would spend more time on the chemistry and not the anecdotes. More than once, he’s gone over the lecture period because he gets into too many stories.
Um, let me get to your question. The chem 4 series is hard, but reasonable. Do you work, learn your stuff (don’t just copy homework solutions), and you should be okay. Realize that many people, including me, complain a lot just for stress relief. </p>
<p>It’s true that you don’t need to switch/decide between chem and chemE until sophomore year. I know a chem major who is going to take chemE 140 in the fall, to test the waters and see if he wants to swtich.</p>
<p>I think the curve is more generous in 4A, given that 80% overall was the cutoff for an A, with 78.4% for an A-. I think it’s 85% overall is an A in 1A. However, I will say that in my opinion, it is MUCH easier to do well in 1A because the material is not that hard (not trying to sound pretentious as not everyone is good in chemistry, but this is relatively speaking when comparing 4A and 1A midterms, homework, etc.)</p>
<p>And yes, you will truly bond with your friends with labs (and I won’t bother inserting a joke about molecular orbitals, though I’m quite tempted). And by bonding I mean you and your lab partner flip out because at the very last minute some calculation has gone horribly wrong, the theory doesn’t work, and by some miraculous force, you do well on the lab. If you start a few days before the lab report is due and get help with the calculations, then the lab reports won’t take that much time to complete.</p>
<p>If you have the chance to be taught by Head-Gordon, you are in for quite an experience :)</p>
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<p>For our year, (2013) 4A worked like this: The first two lectures were taught by Saykally, who is known for blowing up crap, which, I have to admit, mesmerized me. That and his “cowboy chemistry” teaching style. Then, Head-Gordon came in, and about after 4 lectures into Quantum Mechanics, more than half of the students were like *** is this crap. Mind you, these students scored 5s on their AP chem exam, etc. But by finals, most of us understood the quantum and got a real appreciation for chemistry on the microscopic level. I wouldn’t say labs are completely useless either (or that probably depends on your GSI; we had a good one) because I have friends who took 1A and are now in 3A going to me, “Wow, you already learned this lab technique or you already learned quantum in this sense, etc?” I believe 4A is an experience worth learning. Granted, you may not get an A, but you will gain a strong appreciation for chemistry. That, or you decide to go to another major, which is okay too, because I think you shouldn’t tread into chemistry if you hate 4A.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, getting a degree in chemistry at the BS level usually means you should prepare for graduate school. If you get a BS in ChemE, then you can start working immediately. There’s a strong American Institute of Chemical Engineers (AiChE) chapter at our school. It’s full of funny, quirky, and friendly students. Berkeley doesn’t have its own ACS chapter (which is really weird), but that shouldn’t stop you from joining the national group on your own, if you wanted to do so. </p>
<p>Both Chem and ChemE majors have to take the 4 series. You have until sophomore year to decide whether you want to dive into ChemE courses.</p>
<p>thx AppleJuice i think i will try to switch to chem eng @ calso…
aghhh this means i MUST get a 5 in ap chem </p>
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omg LOL r u serious?!</p>
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so basically what i’m getting is that Head-Gordon is an INCREDIBLE teacher, and that chem 4a ISNT impossible - that’s a relief haha</p>
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<p>is it easier to make friends as a chem major, then? that’s good to hear - i was especially scared about how everyone at cal was gonna be too competitive to make friends with one another</p>
<p>Another thing about GSIs: so are they basically just upper-level students(ie. graduate-level) who teach the class?(core curriculum? labs?) what makes them so bad? Because my tour guide at cal said that GSIs should be able to better connect with the students than many of the professors. </p>
<p>ugh, i HATE labs - the lab program at my high school is a disASTER. no safety equipment, people eating sandwiches and sushi and tacos dealing with hydrochloric acid at the same time</p>
<p>i like chemistry cuz it’s very intellectually engaging and i wanted to challenge myself.
Does the wide variety of jobs available for chem e. majors encompass international business? Say if I wanted to go work in China or France in the future - would that be plausible? </p>
<p>haha thanks so much for the detailed responses; i’m hella curious and excited for next year</p>
<p>I’ll be one of your friends, studio. Have FaceBook?</p>
<p>And dang, all the people you quoted are ppl that I look up to(Yeah, I’m a big CC lurker, so I’ve seen them here and there talkin’ about their time in CoC)</p>
<p>haha ChemELover i’m guessing u’re one of my CoC pals!
and lol, i dont have fb, mostly cuz i’m too lazy to make one ><</p>
<p>how are you looking forward to CoC? i’m just HELLA scared for 4a/chem eng. c96</p>
<p>as nerdy as this sounds, i’m planning on studying chem 4a over the summer, just need to know when/where i can get hold of a textbook -____-
(i’ll be in shanghai touring the world expo in china @ the same time!) LOL</p>
<p>Um, there are water fountains in most if not all buildings and also in the dorms. But I would say get a (reusable!) bottle and fill it up as you need it; it’s much more convenient.</p>
<p>Well, I’ve heard that Chem 4A is hard from several people, but I don’t think I’m going to do any prep prior to it. I’m more concerned about minimizing my breadths, and will most likely take a course to fulfill the Reading & Comprehension requirement over the summer.</p>
<p>Chem Eng. C96 is just a one unit seminar that takes place an hour a week. Don’t think it should be too challenging.</p>
<p>I’ve heard that Physics 7A is also pretty hard(at least from this one guy who took AP Physics B but got a C in the course).</p>
<p>And yea, you should create a FB. Takes like maybe a min, and it’ll prob be good for networking at Berk when you’re tryin’ to keep track of all your friends and what not.</p>
<p>The GSIs did not impress me since they don’t do a good job answering questions and they make a good amount of mistakes. I can give specific examples if you want to hear them.</p>
We were working with a blue cobalt solution and a pink chromium solution in lab. In my lab report, I referred to them as coordination complexes. My GSI marked me down and said they are simply ions, not complexes. I thought this was strange because what usually causes metals to turn pretty colors is the splitting of the d sublevel, which is what happens in coordination complexes. So I looked it up; turns out it was a coordination complex. Water is the ligand. I didn’t get any points back.
A GSI incorrectly described to another student that the equivalence point was the point where half the titrate has been neutralized. That is actually the definition of the half-equivalence point.
In class, we used the convention that work is work done on the system. In a midterm, they asked us for work done by the system. Those who correctly recognized that work done by the system is the negative of work done on the system got no points. Those who incorrectly gave the work done on the system received full points. GSIs would hear no argument about the grading of this question, even though it was blatantly wrong.
They had a lack of physical insight into meaning of enthalpy. It wasn’t clear to me why change in enthalpy is equal to heat, when the energy of a reaction is never really heat to begin with (for starters, it is never in transit so it can’t be heat). They explained it using the antiquated and misleading notion that enthalpy is heat within.</p>
<p>@cavilier:
omg… so they feed you wrong info and then ding you pts for giving the corrrect answer??
*** - and these are all pts contributing to overall gpa!
is there anyway to avoid them? </p>
<p>If not, would it be better to read the book instead and ignore what they say? Are the tests based on solely book info, or on class GSI-dispelled ‘facts’ as well?</p>
<p>and finally - what’s the name of the 4a textbook, and would it be possible to obtain a copy over the summer beforehand? llol i wanna try to study beforehand</p>
<p>thanks so much, ur reply had lots of helpful information - god i seriously did not know GSI’s were like that >:(</p>
<p>The inconsistencies you listed cavilier are really blatant and the GSIs should have fixed/regiven points for giving such misleading information.</p>
<p>I understood why most points were taken off, but it’s the GSIs’ faults, not yours.</p>