Cal Poly grads have highest salaries of all CSUs, higher than most UCs

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cal Poly San Luis Obispo
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<p>Does take some work? I’m a 5th year senior with a ton of useless extra units. I will exceed the unit caps if I were to switch to anything else in the College of Engineering. And it will delay graduation by some time (which, to be fair, is to be expected), which means that cannot be allowed (it might hurt the 6 year graduation rate). So… No. They will not let me. My only hope is to get another degree (since, as you folks so artfully pointed out, engineering requires some formal education) somewhere else. That’s 5 more years in school. Tell me, where in the hell am I going to get the money for that? Am I supposed to put my life on hold for another 5 years? All because someone thought it would be a great idea to reduce the time to graduation by eliminating our choice in the matter. </p>

<p>You are not allowed to switch majors unless you can justify it somehow to some department head who has every reason to say no. That is a major educational failure. How can Cal Poly’s defenders see this any other way? Part of the reason for all those GE and support classes we take is to see if we have talents in areas outside our major. The College of Engineering’s current policy makes it impossible to follow any of those intrests. So long as I get credit for my preforming ensembles, I can’t even take a single 4-unit class that isn’t towards my degree. Not to mention that none of the engineering programs offer a minor (except Computer Science). Doesn’t that completely defeat the point of undergraduate education? It’s like saying “Be well rounded, but only as well rounded as we say”. </p>

<p>It’s not just an abstract rant against the corrupt nature of the politics of SLO and Cal Poly. Each part of my rant is something I’ve experienced personally. I’ve seen Warren Baker’s copper counter-tops. I have run useless errands for the folks in the Admin building (of course, I got paid for that… I acctually miss that job). I have had Corporation attempt to charge my club to use our own name. I’ve been scared away from changing major or even taking classes outside my major. I’ve been number 3 on a waitlist of class that has only taken 2 people. I’ve experienced Cal Poly’s version of “due process”, and I’ve seen friends fall victim to it as well. As I said before, if you experienced what I experienced, you would hate Cal Poly. </p>

<p>So, it gets worse in industry? How is that relevant? Because things are worse in industry, I shouldn’t care? Perhaps I should ask, why don’t you care? Did your engineering degree include a professional ethics class? Man, they need to start making the CPEs take 300.</p>

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<p>I got on your case because all you did was whine about your problems. No solution was put forth.</p>

<p>How the heck did you become a senior in a major you didn’t like? I know many people who have switched majors at Cal Poly. Yes, its does require some effort and taking some extra classes. But, they took a proactive approach and did it. Most figured it out sometime around their sophomore year, some earlier. </p>

<p>I have managed large groups of engineers at a large aerospace company. If someone came to me with a problem but no solution, I’d ask them to come back another time with a proposed solution. </p>

<p>When you were #3 on the wait list for a class, did you go and talk to the professor? Many a time they will admit an extra person to the class if they see you really want and knowing that someone will probably drop the class; making it even. Did you ask why Cal Poly they wanted to charge your club? Were you using the name of the school in your club’s name and doing so outside the school? In which case they were probably justified in asking for money for several reasons I can think of.</p>

<p>So what’s you solution to the problems you see at Cal Poly?</p>

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<p>My solution? Change the damn policy! Make it clear that department heads shall admit unless they have cause not to, not the other way around. Drop the ‘specific class GPA’ requirements, which make changes of major impossible once you have taken certain classes with less than a B+ average, unless you retake them. Eliminate the 4 unit rule so that people can start exploring other areas if they want to. </p>

<p>Ditto for the club T-shirt. Trademark fees should NOT go to the corporation, who doesn’t give a damn cent back to the University. We should revise trademark policy to remove the red-tape from the actions of student groups. We, the students, have far more of a claim on the mark than the corporation and trademark policy should reflect that. </p>

<p>When I was #3 on the list, the professor was specifically unwilling to take any more students at all. I was at the first meeting, I would have gotten in if she had. To prevent that from being a road-block, we should not have unnecessary prerequisites. There are a number of classes in CSC that shouldn’t (indirectly) require 225 but do. </p>

<p>I’ve got solutions. The real question is does the university give a damn? I suspect that it doesn’t.</p>

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<p>bjornredtail: Going through your required courses in your major isn’t easy, more so if you don’t like your major. In fact, those required classes seem to get harder & harder and may not pique your interest. If networking or database isn’t your cup of tea, and you still have some time left, use your technical elective list to try completely different classes. Check the proposed course offerings to see what’s available winter or spring and ask other students about upper-level classes. My son discovered an interesting tech elective class after three years. Found another interesting, different specialization the next year. All of the sudden, with a few interesting classes sprinkled in here & there, the major became stimulating. So if you can’t switch majors, make the most of what you have left at Cal Poly.</p>

<p>Don’t forget to pat yourself on the back for getting this far. Many of the students you started with as freshman did not make it this far. So if you’re taking 430 (a very hard class), you’re doing great, drained at this point in the quarter, but fine. Stay focused, pass the class, and move on. Do something of interest with your senior project. Don’t let administrative issues (and other controversies you have no control over) interfere with your goal of graduating.</p>

<p>Once you graduate, you will be in the enviable position of landing a job (thank CPSLO for that in a tough economy). You’d be surprised what a healthy monthly salary can do to your outlook on life. Perhaps with your first job, you might be able to learn other skills more to your liking and meet other people, besides starving, burned-out students. :)</p>

<p>Best of luck to you.</p>

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<p>Well… For the sake of amusement I read through everything that is offered with a CPE prefix. The answer for all but 3 or 4 classes was either 1) Done it (passed) 2) Doesn’t apply (the non-major classes, or the CPE-only classes) or 3) Can’t take it (I lack the prereqs). I’ve done intro to networks, intro to graphics, web development, and databases. That leaves what, AI? SE capstone? OS stuff (oh, right. Haven’t taken OS yet)? More architecture stuff? (Oh, right, not offered). Compilers? (After failing 430? Please.) Distributed computing (Not offered) . Theory of computing stuff? (Need 430, and it’s not offered). </p>

<p>I want to design things. Software is not like that. That’s the first thing that a software engineer will tell you. I want to design useful things. A mechanical engineer will never get stuck writing a silly business apps. However, that’s the highest calling most software people will ever have. And, that’s the rub. Everyone keeps telling me to simply get a job in the field and slowly work my way towards what I really want to do. No one would ever give this advice to a high-school senior. They would say that being an engineer requires a college education in engineering. How is that any different in my case?</p>

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<p>As a Cal Poly trained engineer I have the following comments for you:</p>

<p>1) You whine too much.</p>

<p>If your aim is to become a software designer, your Cal Poly education won’t prevent you from achieving that aim. You just need to pursue that path after graduation. </p>

<p>So stop complaining and start searching for a design engineering job. For most of us, that is how we learn our engineering craft, by working in an actual company. </p>

<p>2) You said you didn’t transfer because you didn’t know where else to go.</p>

<p>Well tough. The opportunity was presented to you for transfer, you didn’t have the guts to take it while it was available. So now live with the consequence of your cowardice. </p>

<p>3) You complained about politics and corruption at Cal Poly</p>

<p>I previously told you that the politics and corruption actually much worse in the industry. </p>

<p>You sounded like you are already so disgusted and disenchanted with Cal Poly’s politics that you are ready to burst with anger. </p>

<p>Well, guess what? If you can’t handle CP’s political BS, after graduation, you can either go become a 1) monk or 2) live in a cave, or 3) do both. </p>

<p>Corporate corruption and politics are 1) rampant, 2) they are infinitely worse and more insidious than CP’s politics. If even now you are filled a sense of rage that prevented you from functioning well in CP, how do you expect to handle low level corporate politics and hold an entry level job? </p>

<p>I don’t want you to go down the road of a worker who goes postal after being fired. </p>

<p>4) Take charge of your life instead of blaming others</p>

<p>“I want to design things. Software is not like that.”</p>

<p>You could do that anytime. No one is stopping you. You could even create the next facebook while still in college just like Mark Z, and drop out with your billions!</p>

<p>What is stopping you?</p>

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<p>“Silly Business apps”. Odd you have no appreciation for the field you chose to enter. Those business apps can transform the way people and organziations have worked for centuries. I guess that is silly.</p>

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<p>I want to be an engineer. That is to say, I do not like programming. I do not like designing software. I do not like implementing software. I want to build THINGS. I want solve problems in the real world, not some abstracted universe created by whoever made the hardware/vm/operating system/programming language/compiler/interpreted environment/API that I happen working in at any given moment. I do not want to work 8 hours a day, only to come home and have to learn the latest, hottest API on my own time and dime. In short, I hate my field, and I wish I had studied civil or mechanical or aeronautical engineering. </p>

<p>That’s the thing. I can’t sit down and do their jobs without their education. In no way does a CSC degree prepare me to to do any of their jobs. You wouldn’t advise a high school senior to get whatever job they could and attempt to work their way into an area that requires a specialized education. How am I any different, even if I manage to finish my degree? </p>

<p>Part of the reason I chose Cal Poly is because it’s ‘real’ engineering departments are reasonably good. I wasn’t sure of what I wanted to do when I came in. I always thought that it would at least be possible to switch major. I think it’s reasonable to warn incoming students that this may not be possible and they should plan it being impossible at this university.</p>

<p>Mariner116: And, how much of these can be implemented by accountants using spreadsheets? (Not that it is maintainable and good practice… I’m making a point here, not seriously suggesting any sane organization do that). Business programming is boring. It requires almost no creativity of the end developer and it requires skills in areas I would rather not deal with for the software engineer. All the heavy lifting has been done and wrapped up in some nice shiny library or API. I don’t think it requires a college education to be able to ‘SELECT * from customers’ and calculate how much money everyone owes. On the flip side, try implementing the code that fetches that from disk, along with several thousands of others every second efficiently and reliability. Oh, and you also have to cope with disk failures, network failures and someone tripping over the power cord. That’s worthwhile, but very few programmers get to do things like that.</p>

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<p>Then go get a master’s in mechanical engineering or industrial design, freely available at excellent institutions all over the country and world. I have NO idea why you think that will take you another five years, but it won’t unless you do it wrong.</p>

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<p>I’m arriving at 5 years based at looking at Cal Poly’s curriculum. Before I can take even a single graduate-level class, I have to complete most of the undergrad stuff in the field. You can’t do that in parallel. You have to take statics before dynamics. You have to take dynamics before you take thermodynamics. And so on. I’ve counted it all out. Here at Cal Poly, that adds up to two years (that’s two years before I can take a single graduate class), even if you have ALL of your external math and science done. Since the knowledge required is the same pretty much anywhere, I fail to see how any other university would be any different.</p>

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<p>@bjornredtail</p>

<p>I know this is actually a 2 month late reply, and let me just start off by saying, sorry you did not have a good college experience, I truly am.</p>

<p>My question to you is, if you don’t like your current major why did you choose to major in it in the first place? Why didn’t you bother to take the time during application process to thoroughly research these things? Cal Poly makes it painfully clear that they frown upon transferring majors. Why didn’t you bother to thoroughly look at their curriculum and what it details? The Cal Poly website has so much information for you, one can only question your own researching abilities. I don’t know why you are whining this much when everything from the start has been your own choice and no one else’s. During application time, did someone choose your major for you? During application time were you or were you not the one that clicked submit? </p>

<p>To be honest, I think you chose the major you chose purely, PURELY, on prestige. Of course of you did that, there is a good chance you may not like what you are studying. If you think Cal Poly is overrated due to its faults as you listed out (and I do not know if it is true or not) you had PLENTY of time to transfer to a different college entirely. Or maybe, you didn’t want to lose the prestige you have at Cal Poly? Maybe your own pride stopped you from maybe going to UCR which has a great engineering program that (as you said you wanted to do) allows you to “build” things. Maybe it was your own pride that stopped you from maybe going to UCM which has a GREAT transfer rate to other colleges (around 90%) In the end, regardless of what you said, you whined away all the time you had to actually do something about what you were unhappy about. I suggest using the internet more for research rather than just ranting and crying about your own laziness to do something. </p>

<p>I am sorry that you became so disillusioned with the college experience and that is caused you to apparently waste away your years of education that you paid good money for. Nothing, is ever as it seems, you can only research as much as you can and predict how it will be. Your life, your time, your choices.</p>

<p>It is made perfectly clear to all students before entry, that Cal Poly 1. requires you to determine your major, they will not let you go undeclared 2. they absolutely frown on transferring majors. Again, I am sorry you don’t like your major, nor your life in college. But bluntly put, if you want to place blame, blame yourself for not researching more during one of the most important life decisions you will have to make.</p>

<p>I really am sorry if it seems I am being harsh, but i know several of my friends that desperately wanted to be at Cal Poly and researched thoroughly and painfully long about the university, to hear you whine so much about your time there is a little irritating as so many would love to be where you are. You could have always just dropped out of Cal Poly, save some money, same some angst and fustration, and go to a community college (see how thats like, btw)</p>

<p>I know, if I don’t like my experience at Cal Poly next year, I only have myself to blame and I know full well that I will do all that is within my power to change it for the better. As for me I don’t care about prestige in name, Cal Poly just seems to be able to offer me more in experience and skills than the other colleges I was accepted into can, like UCDavis.</p>

<p>EDIT:
It occurred to me I never said how Cal Poly made it painfully clear that they did not like major transfers.</p>

<p>If you actually read the wall of text that was there even before you started your application, it says there explicitly, that Cal Poly actually (in a much more harsher way) does NOT allow major transfers at all. It doesn’t even say that it is frowned upon, they just say, they do NOT allow major transfers. </p>

<p>If you dont’ remember that wall of text, you probably just blindly clicked on the “I have read Cal Poly’s policys and understand, proceed to the application” and also, apparently lied in saying you have read it.</p>

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<p>FuturePoly: I wouldn’t be criticize an older Poly student in haste. I read that you’re still a high school senior starting college in the fall. All you know right now is all the facts stated on their websites. In actually, they just made changing majors more easy because they rather have people graduate on time. I just recently made the change to food science to business and during the process, no professor/advisor/department head told me Cal Poly discourages changing majors. Instead, they encourage change of majors so that you can be happy and graduate on time.</p>

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<p>so what you are saying is that it is even easier than before to change majors? I do believe that further helps my point that he had several chances to change his life. </p>

<p>And I am actually very pleased to hear that! thanks, and congrats on your successful major change! I was actually told by several alums that major change was very frowned upon.</p>

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<p>I’m not sure why folks get so defensive of a university that they do not even attend. Cal Poly has it’s flaws. These flaws are significant to the point that many of the people reading this shouldn’t consider Cal Poly. So, what’s so wrong about pointing that out?</p>

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<p>FuturePoly: I hope you’re ready for some gnarly campus food.</p>

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<p>OK, I have just read all of these discussions and I just wanted to put my 2 cents in. </p>

<p>First of all I am writing this from the experience of my son that is a student at cal poly. If you are not completely satisfied with what you have accomplished and want to add to the classes that you have, add a minor. This is not that difficult to do. You must have the required gpa and show a reason why you would like it and talk to the dept. My son just did it and it was not that big of a deal. Also I do know many people who recently have switched majors. It is not just a quick switch you have to have a certain gpa and meet with the dept. but it can be done. It is a little late for you but not for the minor, which is all you need since you have so many classes already. Please stop complaining and be proactive. Go talk to the heads of the departments. Make an appointment and sit down with them and really explain to them your wishes. You might be surprised with what ideas they may have to help you.</p>

<p>And yes you can not just use the cal poly logo and put it on any club or anything else. This is the same at any school. It must be approved.</p>

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<p>Yet, it seems every job listing in Mechanical or Electrical or Civil engineering requires (you guessed it) a degree in Mechanical or Electrical or Civil engineering, respectively. You will also notice that I do not have one of those things. In about 9 months, I will not be able to get one of those from any CSU. You will also notice how unsure about what I do want to do. All I know is that I hate coding. I hate how much of my industry is frivolous and trivial. Yet, it seems that Poly doesn’t like me going off and doing oddball things. </p>

<p>You will also notice what I /have/ done so far. I’ve taken more math than I have use for. I’ve taken statics. Goodness, I’m even taking welding right now. The problem is Poly doesn’t encourage things like that. I’m limited to 4 units at a time (which, since I take preforming ensembles means I can never take ‘real’ classes). Plus, the rest of engineering has around two years of prerequisites to do. I can’t just start taking upper-division classes. Having a minor in an area doesn’t get you out of that either, not that Cal Poly offers any sort of engineering minor besides CSC. Oh, and yes, adding a minor once you have senior is darn near impossible too. Heck, I will have had seinor standing for half my academic career when I graduate. Funny how that works. </p>

<p>So… I’ve done the math on this. I figure I’m around 16 units from either a Math or Music minor. You will note that neither of those qualify me to do engineering work… nor much of anything else employment wise. You will also note that I’ve got 12 units (after this quarter) or coursework remaining. That’s two quarters (one of the classes I will need is not offered until Winter 2012). Now, assuming I can handle 16 real units a quarter (18-19 with ensembles)… Um… Yeah. That will not work. And, it says everywhere on eadvise website, “no minors allowed if they delay graduation”. </p>

<p>

Go off and read the policies, then answer a couple of questions for me:

  1. What happens when I want to create a club that advocates for firearms. Perhaps “Cal Poly Students for Concealed Carry on Campus”… Will my club never be allowed to have Tshirts?
  2. Cal Poly Corporation is demanding royalties for use of the Cal Poly name. Fair enough. I just wonder if the students, whom collective have a whole lot more to do with value of that name than the folks at the Corporation ever will, ever see so much as a cent of that money?</p>
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<p>@bjornredtail</p>

<p>dude, I have read your entire thread on this post. I have to say, you have got to be one of the biggest self-pity long winded whiner on CC. </p>

<p>If you are really so disenchanted with the university for so many years (5 years?), you should REALLY have left for a JC long ago (say 2nd year in CP) and transferred to another university. </p>

<p>Yes, Cal Poly does have draconian rules for change of majors. But that is because countless parents and students are screaming for on-time 4 year graduation, and coupled that with CA’s blood letting budget cuts, the University has no option but attempt to be ruthlessly efficient in moving students through the system. This is nothing new! </p>

<p>CA has been in a near bankrupt state throughout your time at CP, even at your freshman year. And parents have been screaming for faster graduation time for years. And yet you chose to attend to this University. Even so, once you realized that Cal Poly is unbelievably BAD, you could have sucked it up and have the grit to leave the Cal Poly crap-hole behind and start afresh at a JC and transferred to whatever, let’s say Stanford, a place where you can create your own custom major. And yet you stayed. You stayed at your own volition. So take responsibility for that life choice. We all make mistakes in life, but some of us take the responsibilities for those mistakes instead of blaming others. So stop whining like a little girl!</p>

<p>Secondly, I don’t think most people on this board are offended that you are point out the flaws of Cal Poly. I go to Princeton, and my sister is at Cal Poly. We both complained to each other about some of crappy policies at our respective universities. But you know what, we don’t go on CC and whine forever about how miserable our lives are (and our schools are) and how our schools completely and utterly ruined our lives. </p>

<p>It is totally cool to share your perspective on the areas that Cal Poly can or needs to improve upon, even if you are militant about it. But it is not cool to attribute your entire life misery and failures onto the backs of your school. This is because NO SINGLE institution in your life should have that much power over your personal success or happiness. If Cal Poly, or for that matter any university, really is capable of having such profound negative impact on one’s life, then the converse of that MUST also be true. That means a university, if chosen correctly, can put me on a permanent state of bliss or nirvana! Everyone here knows that is simply impossible! </p>

<p>You inability to decide on a major that brings out your passion early on in your academic career is not CP’s fault. Your inability to change major in time (did you have the sufficiently good GPA to change major??) is also not Cal Poly’s fault. Your inability to transfer out of Cal Poly in time is MOST definitely not Cal Poly’s fault. </p>

<p>What is Cal Poly’s fault is their massive failure in selecting the right (in every sense, from academics to school culture) freshman candidate for admission. It is obvious that Cal Poly’s flawed admission process lacks the holistic approach that will enable it to select for both academic, school cultural, and maturity fit. I can see how they made an admission mistake with your candidacy. There are others that would love to be studying CS at Cal Poly, and would have the deepest appreciation for that opportunity and thus the maturity to maximize the learning opportunity in all its facets. Simply put, not only you despise this chance, you also sound like you have the maturity level of a 14 year old, and the concept of personal responsibility means nothing to you.</p>

<p>And if I were you, I would keep the firearm club idea under wraps. Your fellow students might worry about your state of mental health, and fear for their safety.</p>

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<p>If you picked a major that heavily involves something you truly hate, that’s a big mistake, but understandable. Staying in the major after you figured out you truly hate it for real is again extremely silly, but maybe forgivable. But deciding to go ahead and graduate in a major you truly hate… well let’s just say you have bigger problems than what school you’re attending.</p>

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<p>

Letseehere… I could outright fail out, I could drop out, I could transfer, I could crawl in a hole and die, or I could graduate. You know, graduating seems like the easiest option. I have less to explain to all of those around me. </p>

<p>It has a few disadvantages though: 1. It’s going to cost ~$4000 to finish up. Of course, I’ll make most of that from Cal Poly over the summer, so that’s not that big a deal. 2. I’m stuck with that damn worthless CSC degree. 3. Most other CSUs would not admit me once I have a degree from a CSU. </p>

<p>

Why must the converse be true? In fact, I would contend that it’s always easier to destroy things than to build them. Simply stating that the converse is true doesn’t make it so. </p>

<p>I can think of a pretty good counter-example: Bullets. Clearly bullets have the power to (literally) destroy lives, therefore they must have the power to put people into a permanent state of bliss or nirvana! That’s about as much as a non-sequitur as the argument you put forward. You might counter that shooting someone who is truly evil, like Stalin or Saddam Hussein, would do the world a whole lot of good. I wouldn’t disagree, but that doesn’t mean that bullets have the power to do $some<em>arbitrary</em>good_thing, just because they have the power to do something awful. </p>

<p>

That’s little more than a personal attack. And, it’s not even a particularly good one. Just because I hate my major and my life doesn’t mean I haven’t given it a real effort. In fact, I would argue that in fact I have had tried to “maximize the learning opportunity in all its facets”. One look at my transcript or my resume would show that. Why else would I have taken all sorts of somewhat-hard stuff (like statics, Staley’s web dev, Linear Analysis, Calculus IV…) that I didn’t need (and that sometimes doesn’t even count towards my degree). The fact that I dislike CSC and Cal Poly is not the result of a lack of effort on my part. </p>

<p>

I double dog dare someone to raise a stink about hypothetical example of a non-existent organization that promotes the exercise of a constitutionally protected right. With any luck, the University would try something stupid and I would go [Stevn</a> Hinkle](<a href=“http://www.cir-usa.org/cases/hinkle_v_baker.html]Stevn”>http://www.cir-usa.org/cases/hinkle_v_baker.html) on their hind ends so fast their heads would spin. There’s nothing I would love more than to see the University waste thousands of dollars and get more bad PR.</p>