@firmament2x do you mean something like this? https://www.seasoasa.ucla.edu/departmental-scholar-program/
It isn’t quite the same as programs at other schools since it has a steep gpa requirement and does not allow counting courses towards both degrees, but better than nothing.
Other UCs already have 5-year programs such as https://me.ucsb.edu/undergraduate/bsms
Thanks (edit) @mikemac for correcting my idle speculation.
But perhaps someone with a 3.7 would be better off going straight for a doctorate – feel free to correct any of these:
TA while engaged in study
…Earn a salary
…Have education completely funded
Deeper research orientation
…Greater ability to produce patents tangibly
…Expand on knowledge in new fields
Crowning achievement of all PhDs
…Never a glut of doctorate holders
…Teach at university
…Sit on boards of companies
…Greater esteem in obtaining startup funding
Greater Compensation
…Better starting salary at entering industry over MS and BS holders
…Earn money in background activity – multiple seats
Why someone with a 3.7 would rather go for an MS:
Time constraints
Family constraints
Not wanting to uproot oneself to another state
More immediate larger-earning capacity
Enabled as project lead in space probe to determine if Dark Matter really exists
Professional achievements can enable doctorate down the line
Advancement in many science fields depends a PhD but that is relatively rare in engineering. You can talk to working engineers and they may not even know a someone with a PhD. Of course some people have them but it is easy to get a job paying $60-90K out of college with a BS in most engineering fields, a MS gives a boost and is another year of building skills (but you better know which sub-field you want; a year getting a MS focused on power transmission design won’t help someone ending up working in logic design at Apple). A PhD is 3-7 years out of the job market which alone is an enormous lost income.
Now for exceptions. If you want to design processors at Intel and be making architecture decisions then a PhD from Cal or Stanford (home of Patterson & Hennessy, the leading lights in the field) is your ticket. AI and machine learning are hot fields these days so at least starting a PhD program (you may be hired out before you finish) would be a good idea. And so on.
There are no absolutes but not a lot of engineers plan on or need a PhD.
A few fields that a PhD is needed–semiconductor process/device and transistor design/yield engineering for chip companies. (Micron, Intel, IBM, NXP Semiconductor (old Motorola) , Global Foundries) Some computer architecture positions, like AMD, Intel that will put a Phd on a technical ladder. Some machine learning/deep learning positions at Google, Microsoft Redmond Labs, Facebook, etc.
Some Big Data positions need stats/CS/Math PhD.
Any computational position in meteorology, climate modeling, fluids often needs a PhD.
@firmament2x I don’t think masters degrees hurt a student at all, who eventually goes for a PhD. Many international students come into PhD programs with a masters degree in their home country and a publication. American students may accomplish this research at summer REU positions, during undergrad. About half the PhD students in the USA are international students today, the other half US citizens.
For a very top and motivated student, who knows he/she wants to have a career in research, and/or university teaching , going directly to a PhD may be advisable, to save time.
PhD programs in computer engineering/EE/CS are almost 100% funded at a salary rate of about $32K-$36K a year. PhD candidates can save a little for retirement at that rate, but depends on sharing a house for the duration. The PhD lifestyle can be really fun, lots of freedom, a salary and ability to collaborate with world experts.
Or it can lead to disillusionment, depression, and dropping out without writing a thesis. Sometimes, a student jumps
from half way through a PhD in physics, or math, into quantitative Wall sTreet analyst without getting depressed, though. There are jumping off points, but for a student who has a masters going in, then there is no degree earned.
Overall though the masters degree is the sweet spot for salary and a more complex interesting job than many bachelors degrees will lead to. Software engineering success ,though depends entirely on coding talent. It takes a while for some to develop those skills. Cal Poly or UCLA will develop coding skills, along with good summer positions.
@mikemac & @Coloradomama thank you very much! You’re right, PhDs in engineering and computer science are such rare birds – they are the Holy Grail; and because of this, I’ve always thought how brilliant they’ve had to have been to undergo such a long period of intense study. It is the ultimate gauntlet of higher education comparatively speaking.
mikemac, I’ve seen your posts, and I didn’t know that was your specialty. Great stuff…
Coloradomama, you have such a down home name, but I’ve read your responses, and it’s evident you’re THE expert on this board regarding college advice in STEM fields.
The OPs on all threads regarding such should note both of your advice.
I have definitely taken notice.
You have a couple of great choices, and don’t feel compelled to tell us where you’re going. That’s just my opinion; others will be curious of course, but it’s ultimately your prerogative. Best of luck!
You shouldn’t feel compelled to tell us, of course, but I hope you will! It’s great to get a chance to (hopefully) be helpful in offering information/perspectives, and definitely great when we get to see how it turns out in the end.
Thank you guys for the helpful replies! I appreciate some of your opinions on the matter. This thread is mostly pro-CPSLO, so I asked others who could give more insight into UCLA.
In the end, I committed to CPSLO for multiple reasons:
Firstly, the academics are more practical rather than technical. Some professors are more focused on helping the students, especially since SLO is an undergraduate college instead of a research university. I do like being in small class sizes as it allows me to get in better touch with my future instructors.
Secondly, SLO is known for having top engineering programs in the country. Many close friends were amazed that I had been admitted for computer engineering for SLO since many employers up north generally recruit those CPE graduates. While my goal is to work up to an MBA after graduation, having an open job opportunity is impressive by itself. With an undeclared engineering major at UCLA, I doubt I will get into the major I want within the first quarter since many of them are impacted.
Lastly, well-being. I have taken many community college courses, and I am close to finishing all of my GEs. I asked one of the CPSLO guidance officers, and he said that I didn’t have much support classes starting the fall quarter. I am free to focus on my major courses and other exciting electives along the way. I could attempt to graduate early (if it’s possible) or I could have a more laid-back schedule and enjoy my four-year college experience. With an undeclared major at UCLA, I would have less priority in choosing the classes that I want and be pushed back later on in my freshman year. That doesn’t mean I haven’t forgotten about SLO’s strict curriculum sequence for CPE.
No doubt if I had been accepted to UCLA with a declared major, I would have chosen it over SLO. Its academics and reputation play a significant role in my future career. But SLO is not far behind. I am interested in their Learn By Doing philosophy, and I have great friends who are also joining me as well.
Congratulations and have a wonderful time at SLO!
Congrats, and a clarification.
“Firstly, the academics are more practical rather than technical.”
This is a myth. They do not teach one at the expense of the other. I can assure you that you will get a very theoretical education. You will just be able to apply what you learn. Every engineering class except for the most advanced theoretical classes like those in advanced fluid mechanics for example, have labs. Nearly all of the CPE classes, even at the graduate level, have labs. This is not necessarily the case at other schools. That’s the main source of “Learn by Doing.” There are no light math classes at Cal Poly like there are in some engineering programs. You will get “real” math, proofs and all, not just “good enough for engineers” math. You will take physics with physics majors. In the end it is more about students from some schools not having exposure to application than it is about Cal Poly students not having exposure to theory.
One thing you might consider if you’ve got many of the GEs completed, is the 4+1 program. It’s hard to get out early due to the sequential nature of the curriculum. You will have excess course capacity though as you’ve alluded to. It is a very efficient way to get a masters.
Have fun!
Hi eyemgh my Daughter has accepted Cal Poly Pomona for ME. How was your son’s experience with ease of signing up to core classes , internships and Job fairs ? Thanks a ton!
Hi,
I know it’s an old thread, but hopefully you or someone else can chime in. You mentioned that one of the “cons” of SLO is the rumors of racial issues because of a lack of diversity. Has anyone noticed this?
Thanks,
You might start a new thread in the SLO forum to get a better response.