Cal State vs. UCs-getting no respect?

Parents Forum
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<p>In looking at rankings (sigh, I don't really like to do it, but it goes to my point), lots of UCs are in the top 100+ colleges: UCB, UCLA, UCSD, UCD, UCSB, UCI, and so on, but only one school, SDSU, is in the top 200.</p>

<p>Why is that? And why isn't SLO anywhere in the top 200? And what does that say about the education at our Cal State schools? Anything?</p>

<p>I am also finding young people who turn their noses up at Cal States, kids whose SAT scores are good but not great. In fact, I'm finding kids even turning up their noses at "lower" ranked UCs such as UCI.</p>

<p>My son has a 2230 SAT and I am think UCI would be a fine fit academically and personally. (He has a 3.95/4.47 gpa, too) He also has SDSU, CSULB and SJSU on the list. And the community college is a back up plan.</p>

<p>I know of a student with a 2000 SAT, slightly lower GPA, who is not planning to apply to any Cal States and is only interested in UCSD and UCLA.</p>

<p>I know another student with a 1740 SAT who has no plans for any Cal State except SDSU.</p>

<p>Explanation, please. Is it all about reputation?</p>

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<p>SLO is ranked #10 as a Regional Universities (West), it doesn’t meet the definition of a National University. Regional Universities “offer a full range of undergrad programs and some master’s programs but few doctoral programs”, while National Universities “offer a full range of undergraduate majors, plus master’s and doctoral programs”.</p>

<p>Same goes for the other CSU’s. In addition, the “National Universities” from 100 to 199 are still fairly strong universities. The CSU’s in comparison, tend to have lower graduation rates, lower SAT/ACT scores, and higher student to full time faculty ratios, The state of California has some of the best rated public universities in the country, but it would be hard pressed to have all 32 public universities make a top 200 list. :)</p>

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<p>If you are looking at USNWR rankings, note that they have separate categories for “national [PhD-granting] universities”, “national liberal arts colleges”, etc. Apparently because of the lack of PhD programs, USNWR classifies most CSUs as “regional universities”.</p>

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<p>The CSU’s are considered regional universities not national universities – so they are on a different list. Here’s how they define the categories:</p>

<p>

Link: <a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2014/09/08/how-us-news-calculated-the-2015-best-colleges-rankings”>http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2014/09/08/how-us-news-calculated-the-2015-best-colleges-rankings&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And here is the list with the CSU’s ranked:</p>

<p>Regional Universities West Rankings
<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-west”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-west&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Cal Poly is #10 on that list. </p>

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<p>Cal Poly has one of the best animal science and aeronautical engineering programs in the country. They are also one of the few schools offering architectural engineering. A real gem!</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>I’d add that my son is a CSU graduate. He also was a National Merit Finalist – and he had a weighted GPA well above 4.0 in high school. (I don’t remember what it was, maybe 4.2 or 4.3). </p>

<p>I’m guessing your finances are a limiting factor and you are not willing or able to spend a fortune in a prestige hunt when there are affordable options at home. Or maybe your son is just practically minded and doesn’t want to stray too far from home. Either way, those are fine options, and your son will do fine with any of those choices. </p>

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<p>Hopefully these students have safety schools otherwise they may be in for a big shock when acceptances come out.</p>

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<p>Cal Poly SLO is odd in that it is within the CSU system but it doesn’t really behave like a typical CSU.</p>

<p>Cal Poly engineering is ranked #8 in the US for non-phd engineering school.</p>

<p>SLO’s undergrad Architecture is #1 in the US ahead of Cornell.</p>

<p>Cal Poly’s b-school is ranked # 64.</p>

<p>This marks the fifth consecutive year the Orfalea College of Business has been ranked in the list of 124 colleges and universities. Cal Poly was one of only three public universities in California to make the list. UC Berkeley came in at 11, and UC Riverside was ranked No. 124.</p>

<p>Overall, CPSLO is an academic peer to UCI/UCD/UCSB. and for some majors on par with UCSD. </p>

<p><a href=“Cal Poly Admissions”>Cal Poly Admissions;

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<p>Basically, for opportunities in the real world, rankings are a poor gauge. Cal is an Ivy-equivalent in my book, UCLA is well-respected, and UCSD is famous for being strong in various STEM fields, but SJSU is a feeder to Silicon Valley companies, UCI benefits from being near Silicon Beach (and I definitely think UCI Honors may be better than Cal/UCLA for some career paths), UCSB’s College of Creative Studies sounds awesome, and CalPoly SLO grads seem to do really well in the job market.</p>

<p>And as other people have said, USN divides colleges in an idiosyncratic way. Forbes has UCSD/UCD/UCI/UCSB/CalPoly-SLO all quite close together.</p>

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<p>From a practical matter, USNews has to draw a line somewhere. (It sure ain’t fair to compare LACs to major, research Unis.)</p>

<p>btw: perhaps one could argue that it is California that is idiosyncratic, at least relative to other states. California has drawn a line – which is now getting blurred – in its higher ed, by carving out three completely separate college programs, for undergrad and grad/professional schools: UC, Cal State and community colleges. Other states generally only have two. New York, for example, has the SUNY system, which does the same as California’s UC+CSU systems.</p>

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<p>Cal Poly SLO, SDSU, CSULB, SJSU to name a few will definitely give you more bang for your buck than some of the UC’s depending upon their major programs. My older son’s best friend, top 5 in his HS class, really only considered SDSU for business and since it was about $10K cheaper than the UC’s made more sense financially. I personally hate rankings, so I have told both my son’s to look at their overall major program and pick the one they feel would best fit their academic goals. Older son chose a UC and younger a CSU. I believe they both made great choices…</p>

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<p>yep. My daughter’s university is number 2 in the west region, and had been for a long time. It does not appear on the LAC or University lists on the USNews rankings. There are a lot of wonderful schools on those regional lists that totally fly under the radar screen because they are not on the USNew two big lists! These are great schools, not to be dismissed!</p>

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<p>I think it all depends on the crowd you are around. The kids we know through activities absolutely look down on the CSU system… ESPECIALLY SDSU because it’s the commuter school for us. However, lots of kids from D’s school were happy to get accepted and attend CSU schools including SLO, Chico, Fresno, Humbolt, Fullerton and SDSU, of course. The only UC’s that seemed to get a sneer were Riverside and Merced almost entirely due to location. I do think that attitude will start to change. Those top UC’s have been really tough to get into for even tippy-top students. We couldn’t believe it when D’s valedictorian was rejected from UCSD. One of D’s friends wanted UCLA more than anything but rejected… had to console himself with Harvard. Lots of high stats kids getting rejected from Davis, UCSD and Santa Barbara this year.</p>

<p>Maybe it’s a price thing too. CSU’s are affordable for sure but if a kid qualifies for a cal grant (which can be just under 80K for a family of 4,) then really, they aren’t much different from a UC. Since the UC’s have more prestige, well, maybe people thing they are getting more bang for their buck.</p>

<p>My own D really wanted a small LAC. She hated SDSU largely because she felt like she’d be going to school with all the kids she hated from middle school (and there was some truth to that even though it’s a huge school so not like she’d ever see them.) She had lots of great options in the UC circuit but again, just too big for her. When she got into an LAC that could beat a UC price, we just let the California systems go. My S is only a HS freshman but he’s looking at SLO and SJSU for sure.</p>

<p>Anyway, I think it’ll shift back eventually when more high stats kids aren’t able to get into their dream UC’s.</p>

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<p>I appreciate the education! I hadn’t realized how the rankings worked and wondered why SLO wasn’t on any lists, yet SDSU was on the US World and News (or whatever it’s called) list. That makes sense how they group schools.</p>

<p>I agree that my young friends need to have some safeties. I am working with one of them, and I will make sure safeties are on the list.</p>

<p>As far as my own son, yes, finances are a big concern. However, we are of moderate means and top colleges such as Stanford, Penn, or Princeton, would be much more affordable than most UC and state schools except for the local ones. The problem is getting in. :-)</p>

<p>CSULB and SJSU are actually probably out of range financially without a fair amount of loans (because of the cost of room and board), but because they have Industrial Design, they are on the list.</p>

<p>Of the Cal States and UCs, SDSU, UCSD and UCLA are most affordable since we qualify for Cal Grant, Blue Gold, and probably a small amount of Pell Grant. UCI comes in next of the schools on the list. It would be less expensive than CSULB and SJSU unless my son would get scholarships at the state schools. SDSU, as far as I can figure running the net price calculator, would be tuition free or close to it. I think if my son chooses a challenging major like ME, he would find classes decently challenging.</p>

<p>I confess I don’t care for SDSU since I graduated from there, and I still have images if it being a commuter party school, but it’s cheap for us, that’s for sure!</p>

<p>So, he does have a few possible top schools on the list, but knows community college, where he is full time for his senior year, is a definite option if all else falls through.</p>

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<p>turtletime, yes, I think that’s the feeling these kids have in regards to SDSU. I have felt the same way, but I also realize I can’t close that door and if my son has to be a commuter, so be it. I would much prefer he experience what my oldest has experienced at MIT-camaraderie, living on campus, school activities, etc.-but it might not happen.</p>

<p>What LAC did your D get into, if you don’t mind me asking? I think LACs might not be the right fit for my son.</p>

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<p>My younger son currently attends SDSU (Freshman) and its funny that so many people still have that party school image about the school. I assure you that within the last 10 years, SDSU has really made an effort to dispel that image and as an in-coming Freshman, each student is required to take an on-line class regarding alcohol use. The program is now being adopted as a possible CSU wide program for all in-coming Freshman. Also SDSU has not been in the top 30 of party schools rankings for many years.<br>
Most CSU’s are seen as commuter schools versus the UC’s but UCI/UCR and even UCSD has a large population of commuter students. I was a commuter to CPP and I really did not feel I lost out in being involved with on campus activities and the camaraderie with my fellow students. You get out, what you put in.</p>

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<p>According to <a href=“San Diego State University Housing & Campus Life | CollegeData”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg05_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=956&lt;/a&gt; , 72% of SDSU frosh live in the dorms, so while the school is mostly residential, it has a substantial commuter population. But if you are local, it is likely that a high percentage of SDSU students you know are commuters.</p>

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<p>Yes, of the kids that we’ve known to attend, all were commuters.</p>

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<p>San Diego State has a lot more Freshmen dorming now because it is a requirement for students from outside their catchment area, even if they still live in San Diego or within easy commuting distance.</p>

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<p>I received my degrees from SDSU and lived 2 miles from campus during grad school. I guess because my major was so intense, I didn’t have time to “party” and rode my bike. So my memories are good. </p>

<p>My nephew attends SDSU and had to compete with his high grades to get in. He loves the options of a large campus with its array of classes, but he also acknowledges that the work is tough, and you can’t “party” if you plan on graduating with a decent GPA. </p>

<p>SDSU has a lot of students on Financial Aid and in Sports programs who have to maintain a certain GPA to maintain their SAP (Satisfactory Academic Progress). The Aztecs don’t continue to have that old “party” image, because the school deals with it in a proactive manner, but another California campus does maintain its old party image: UCSB </p>