Cal vs Cornell Engineering

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
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<p>I posted a similar thread on the Cornell page-</p>

<p>I'm just hoping to get a feel for the advantages and disadvantages at Cal to compare with those at Cornell. I saw a thread from last year where students who chose berkeley shared the schools they turned down for Cal, and was wondering what specific reasons were.</p>

<p>I'd feel lucky to go to either of those schools.
I'm OOS female, applied to mech engineering 2210 sat one sitting- (m790 cr760 w660)
uw gpa for soph and junior years 3.86.. IB Diploma, but this isnt a chance thread..its just kind of automatic to list those things here =P</p>

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<p>I would say that in terms of the actual education, they're probably close to equal. Berkeley undoubtedly has the edge in engineering, and more name recognition, but Cornell is certainly fantastic too. I was actually torn between these two schools too, but after much deliberation, I decided on Cal, and in hindsight I'm incredibly glad I didn't choose Cornell...not because of academic differences, but because of where it is. Berkeley is a really fun city with a lot to do and easy access to SF, and Ithaca is a really small town...and it snows for much of the school year. Not to say that either of those are bad things, but it wasn't what I was looking for. So I guess my point is, keep that in mind...you're choosing between urban and rural, California and upstate New York, sun/rain and snow. They're polar opposites in many ways, and you have to decide which lifestyle you like better.</p>

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<p>thanks for responding.
I'm a little surprised that you mentioned that Cal may have more name recognition- I thought Cornell might just because it's an Ivy, and a lot of people don't look past that.
Both of my parents attended UVa (from out of state) and my dad has oft said that employers look at the fact that its a state school and don't realize that it's one of the top state schools (much like Berkeley)
Location is definitely big. It's just that I live in MD so even if I get the chance to visit Cal (hopefully Spring Break), I won't really feel that I know the atmosphere well enough to make an informed decision. Like you said, they are SO different. Chances are I'd like either equally, but having to choose would be tough.
If you don't mind my asking, where are you from? and was there any deciding moment or factor which made you choose cal?</p>

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<p>If you were in-state, then you would be a fool to not choose Cal.</p>

<p>However, you're not in-state and that makes choosing Cornell sensible for a few reasons:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>You're probably going to pay the same tuition. Maybe a little less for Cornell since it gives out more scholarship than Berkeley.</p></li>
<li><p>Cornell has better name recognition and broader connections. It's an Ivy-- the alumni network is irrefutably better than Berkeley's. Then again, Berkeley is situated near the Silicon Valley with lots of internship opportunities. You'll have to judge this for yourself. I'd personally go with the alumni network because there's no way of knowing you'll go through with engineering.</p></li>
<li><p>Berkeley has rampant budget cuts across the board right now. It doesn't seem like it will be ending anytime soon either. I'm assuming Cornell doesn't, but even if it does, it's most likely not as severe as Cal's. This is relevant because it'll be harder for you to get into the classes that you want.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>I was also choosing between Cornell and Berkeley 2 years ago and I am very glad right now that I have chosen Cal because of the weather. I visit some friends on the East Coast over the winter and I just couln't withstand the cold (I am from socal). I wouldn't know how would I ever be able to wake up in the morning and be motivated enough to walk to my classes when it's freezing cold outside.....But again, since you are from MD, you might be OK with that. </p>

<p>Regarding reputation, I am not sure if Cal or Cornell sounds better than one another. I have the feeling that people generally overlook the fact that Cal is a public school. I have never heard of anyone saying that they graduated from "University of California, Berkeley." Instead, everyone just says, O I graduated from Berkeley. Cornell definitely is a reputable institution given that it's an Ivy. However, you should really think twice if you are going to choose just based on the "name" of the college.</p>

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<p>O and.. I got very good scholarships/aid from Berkeley that's a little more than what Cornell offers so my situation was probably different from yours.</p>

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<p>Hmmm. Honestly, choose based on location. If you're going for name, I don't think it's really worth it to make a distinction between Cornell and Berkeley. I mean, a lot of Berkeley academics are elite in a very special way that none but the top Ivies + Stanford match. And Cornell doesn't offer the most noteworthy quality some Ivies do, which is to cushion you a little for getting in, and getting you a nice degree sort of for free. </p>

<p>If you're reasonably confident you're going to do engineering, I'd say go with Berkeley most likely. Else, maybe don't go to Berkeley OR Cornell...both are hard to do well in, and it's not worth it if you're not pretty sure you'll do engineering.</p>

<p>I mean, amidst engineers, I think Berkeley has an elite status that's pretty unparalleled, except by the other famous ones - Stanford and MIT.</p>

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<p>now i feel bad- like it seems as though i'm just going for name. I'm not.</p>

<p>I'm sure I want to do engineering, but I don't see exactly where I'll be(or want to be) ten years from now. And I' afraid that could make me less successful at Cal than Cornell.</p>

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<p>"I'm sure I want to do engineering, but I don't see exactly where I'll be(or want to be) ten years from now. And I' afraid that could make me less successful at Cal than Cornell."</p>

<p>I'm not sure how you draw the last conclusion [or beginnings of a conclusion]. I would go with Cal if I were you, if you're REALLY sure about engineering. Others such as Sakky would highly caution you about being sure about engineering...I say one has to draw the line at some point, and in any case, I think it'd be different if you were considering Berkeley vs. private school with more popular name + easier to do well in [which Cornell isn't really much of]. A degree from Berkeley engineering is very, very good and elite, and Berkeley undergrad is likely best known for its engineering schools.</p>

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<p>If you perchance want engineering grad school....letters of rec from certain Berkeley faculty would be awesome. Berkeley is just very much known for elite engineering.</p>

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<p>Don't take the Ivy League too seriously...It's just an old eastern sports conference similar to the Pac 10 in the West. All Cornell being an Ivy League means is that it plays sports with the likes of Harvard, Yale, Brown, and so on. UVa could have been an Ivy League school if it had joined way in the 19th century or so when the league was formed. Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine.</p>

<p>Second, I should think Berkeley has a better alumni network, especially as far as engineering is concerned. Berkeley graduates a lot more people per year than does Cornell and a lot more go on to become successful, especially in engineering. Let me give you an example, Berkeley has produced two Fields Medalists, William Thurston and Shing-Tung Yau, while Cornell has produced none. That was a math example so here's an engineering one: Berkeley has produced 7 Turing Award winners and Cornell none. </p>

<p>Well, when I was thinking this through around May, I turned down Cornell for a rather shallow reason I admit. I just couldn't stand the thought of not seeing the sun from December to March or April as my friend told me (I'm from socal). Plus I'd imagine the cost of living at Cornell being rather high seeing as how out of the way it is. Oh and my friend showed me this vid: YouTube</a> - the fabulous life of cornell students .</p>

<p>Engineering school wise, I'd say Berkeley is better for most majors unless you're going to do engineering science/physics (Cornell #1, Berkeley #2) and agricultural engineering. Number of engineering undergrads at Berkeley is 2,687 compared to 3,051 at Cornell. Number of engineering faculty is 228 at Berkeley to Cornell's 236. Number of living engineering alumni is about 54,000 for Berkeley and about 36,000 for Cornell. </p>

<p>Also, I don't think choosing your undergrad school will determine your future success. I've met people who graduated from Harvard with crappy jobs and those who went to less than famous state school with great jobs. If you're afraid a school could "make" you less successful, I think there might be something wrong with your philosophy. Schools really can't make you anything, except maybe broke. I've always thought of school as a resource for me to make something of myself. There are times that I wonder what my life would be like if I went to Cornell instead of Berkeley, but I think Berkeley is a better resource.</p>

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<p>Hm, well I'd be careful about considering the "number of fields medalists" or Turing Award winners as a factor, but yeah there's one thing about it, which is that Berkeley is really a research powerhouse + has an incredible graduate program sitting right along the side. Meaning the prof's + grad students you interact with are there because they are <em>the top people in their field</em> along with few other elites. </p>

<p>This may or may not interest you.</p>

<p>But I personally can't imagine, given what I said above, that you'd have any reason in terms of "name recognition" not to choose Berkeley. Nevertheless, I think ultimately for undergrad, you need to be happy, and the factors I have mentioned aren't the most crucial. Both schools will give you a chance to push your limits hugely, and it doesn't matter beyond a point how much...stay happy.</p>

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<p>If this hasn't been made clear...the main perk to Berkeley is that I think it's <em>particularly</em> elite in terms of engineering departments. For example, if you were applying for EECS, and expressed remotest interest in grad school, I would just tell you hands down to go to Berkeley.</p>

<p>Here's an idea -- take a look at the courses and framework the engineering stuff is done at either school.</p>

<p>Really, neither Berkeley nor Cornell is the sort of place to go to for name...that's like, Harvard or Princeton. You want to look at their programs + departments. I'm not sure about the kind of engineering you like, but I know our engineering is elite in a special way along with Stanford and MIT.</p>

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<p>I just want to clarify, I'm not looking for the biggest name schools-that would be caltech, mit etc, mainly because it's unrealistic that I could get in, even though I have been a very good student and taken the most advanced math and science courses, I haven't had any internships, done anything out of the ordinary, blah blah blah etc.</p>

<p>I consider cal and cornell's engineering programs more reputable than those at most upper-end schools. I put michigan in a similar group as cu and cal, though less selective. </p>

<p>I posted this thread in hopes of discovering differences between the two that would make the decision easier(ie professor accesibility, internships, extracurricular opportunities, fin aid) I'm not expecting a clear-cut answer as to which is "better" because I think that's impossible to tell from an objective standpoint. I think it's too personal, besides. One could even argue that university of maryland was the best place to get their engineering degree for personal reasons although it's certainly not as reputed as cal or cornell.</p>

<p>As for the quotation that mathboy took from my post, I mean that, from what has been posted, it seems like a student at cal needs to have a vision of what they want to do so that they can hunt down the resources and opportunities to do it. I don't feel like I have enough exposure to each of the diff. fields of engineering to pave a path starting freshman year. Maybe that argument is irrelevant; it is unlikely that most freshman know exactly what their career plans are.</p>

<p>Specific questions:
is it possible to get instate tuition if I live in california over the summer?
how does the cost of living near berkeley compare to that in ithaca- dill_scouts video made cornell's look pretty high?
are you ever allowed a car/ is it practical to have a car?
do most student live in dorms? if so, how is that situation?</p>

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<p>Can't comment on the first two of your questions intelligently, shalala, but to</p>

<p>"are you ever allowed a car/ is it practical to have a car?
do most student live in dorms? if so, how is that situation?"</p>

<p>I can tell you a car is not ideal, but I do know at least one person who uses one. I don't think there's a problem walking anyway though =] </p>

<p>As for dorms, yes in frosh. year, sometimes yes in soph. year, and NO later on. I am in my second year, and already am living off campus. I definitely did not adore the dorms, but I don't think I would have anywhere. In theory though, you can live off campus whenever you like, even starting your first year! It's just to avoid the trouble, most people just go with the flow the first year. </p>

<p>"As for the quotation that mathboy took from my post, I mean that, from what has been posted, it seems like a student at cal needs to have a vision of what they want to do so that they can hunt down the resources and opportunities to do it. I don't feel like I have enough exposure to each of the diff. fields of engineering to pave a path starting freshman year. Maybe that argument is irrelevant; it is unlikely that most freshman know exactly what their career plans are."</p>

<p>WEll, to kind of take a higher level of the concern you raise, you want to know about how much freedom you'll have in either school. There isn't quite a plain answer -- at Berkeley, yes you will have to apply <em>to an engineering major of choice</em> though there is certainly an engineering undeclared option, which I know at least one guy to have taken. I also know someone who switched from Chem-E to something else, to EECS, to blah, blah..switched among the toughest to get into majors; he's a smart guy, but I don't think he had perfect grades [though pretty good ones]. I think if you really desperately want to not commit to a certain form of engineering, going the undeclared route is a good option. Though, a perfectly good one is also to sample a field of engineering you THINK will fit you, then moving out if necessary -- it <em>is</em> actually possible. You just can't have low grades and manage it. </p>

<p>Honestly speaking, there is probably a wealth of opportunity in terms of classes, top faculty, and research opportunity at both schools. Berkeley is definitely well connected. The one horrible issue is that in certain majors, people struggle to get into classes. I don't think this is a huge problem in the realm of EECS, for instance...I'm not even sure if it's a huge issue in engineering. But in other majors there's definitely that issue. [Heh, I have NEVER EVER worried about a class filling up myself...so it is possible to do that.]</p>

<p>One distinction between the two is that Cal is a public school...and hence, it is likely to be <em>considerably</em> more lax in terms of requirements + giving you credits for AP's and stuff. I know this from speaking with someone at Cornell...they force you to do quite a bit more in terms of credits. I like a school that is lax with such things, because I like the freedom to mess around with my schedule as I like it, not have to crowd it, etc. Requirements really suck. Classes can be pretty hard, and you don't want other things to worry about....this is one of the more important factors to consider.</p>

<p>I can tell you that I was considering schools like Harvey Mudd and Caltech as well, and I had the scores etc back in the day, but I <em>did not want to go</em> because they'd force me through their brutal system of several required courses. Now, some like that, but certainly not everyone. I have found Berkeley to be very lax, and really enjoy the freedom it gives me to take advantage of its fantastic academics in a focused way.</p>

<p>As for tastybeef's remark: well, Cornell's network being more powerful doesn't seem to hold for <em>engineering</em> in particular. Neither would it hold in terms of the math department. However, it probably holds more generally if you just consider it as a school, because it's an Ivy League.</p>

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<p>Oh and to clarify name recognition -- Berkeley probably has a slightly more elite name in engineering than Cornell, just as MIT has the most elite name of all. I think Caltech is not in the same sort of category as Berkeley or MIT, because it is a small, focused school. Link Caltech and Harvey Mudd, and link Berkeley, Stanford, and MIT. That makes it a little clearer of a picture. </p>

<p>And link Cornell [name-wise] with Ivies. The appeals are very different. Honestly, both engineering programs do have good name, and as shalala seems to suggest, she's likely not going to choose based on this.</p>

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<p>"is it possible to get instate tuition if I live in california over the summer?"</p>

<p>Well...I think I've got to clarify the "instate tuition" thing a bit...To be politically correct, California residents don't pay "tuition"; they pay an "educational fee" instead. This is because the "tuition" for going to California public schools is covered by the taxes that California residents pay to the state. Thus, legally, "tuition" is an incorrect description of what instate residents pay. Now, if you live in California over the summer, are you going to be living as an emancipated adult who is going to pay his/her own taxes to the state of California come April? Or in some way or form end up paying taxes to the state of California? If whatever arrangement you make does not end with taxes being paid to the state of California, then I'm sorry I don't think you'll be getting the instate educational fee. It's not about the residence its really about the taxes.</p>

<p>"how does the cost of living near berkeley compare to that in ithaca- dill_scouts video made cornell's look pretty high?"</p>

<p>Well, if you think about it crictically, food prices will be definitely higher in Ithaca than in Berkeley. Ithaca is near farm country, but that part of the country can only produce a handful of crops which means every other type of food, especially fruits and vegetables will be extremely expensive due to shipping costs. Berkeley is an urban area surrounded by farm country and California is the agricultural food basket of the nation so food is definitely cheaper here (and fresher too) than in New York no matter how you look at it. In the video, they bring up an example of $7.00 sandwiches in Cornell, but even at school dining facilities (which are typically a bit more expensive) a deli sandwich is $4.99 at Berkeley. </p>

<p>Ithaca, New York should technically be cheaper landwise since land in that particular region of New York is rather abundant, but since Ithaca is purely a small college town the laws of marginal utility and supply and demand are going to push the prices of rent pretty high. In other words, there are only so many apartments for rent in Ithaca and all the landlords know that students (mostly from upper middle class families) are the tenants so they probably will set a rather high price for the apartments knowing that it's either that or the dorms. Berkeley is a little different from Cornell in that since its a much bigger, more urban college town you get more choices for housing. If you want to live right on the edge of campus you may have to pay a premium price, but the further from campus you get the less pricey the apartments. Also, no matter how far you live the public transportation is a good way to get to school. I have several friends who use the public transport to commute from the next town over for classes every day. People do say the Bay Area has a pretty high cost of living but I think that only really applies if you buy a house, pay property taxes, and eat/shop in San Francisco all the time.</p>

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<p>You also don't need a vision. That's why all engineering students have to take the E10 (Engineering 10) course in their freshman year. It's purpose is to teach you about engineering, introduce you to the various engineering fields offered, and show you how engineers work. Plus undeclareds don't have to make a choice until junior year and they can talk to any faculty advisor of their choice. </p>

<p>You can also eat free dinners and some lunches every weekday/night because a lot of clubs and business/job info sessions provide free food. I'm not so sure the business/info sessions occur year round at Cornell though because of Cornell's location, but Berkeley has the advantage of being a very elite engineering school, good location, and good weather so businesses come year round. Next Tuesday, for example, there's a free lunch where the Vice President of Research and Special Initiatives at Google will come and give a talk and Google will also provide some free door prizes. In the fall, Microsoft sent someone and they provided lunch and gave out a bunch of free iPod nanos.</p>

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<p>For the educational fee, I realize that I would have to be paying taxes to CA and have a fixed address there. I'm concerned about, if I did this, would I be able to live in a dorm freshman year or would the in-state status only take effect after 12 months after having the fixed address?
Really, I should probably contact the school for this info if I go to Cal and want to try this. I was just curious if anyone had any experience with it, because I would in effect be lowering the amount of money they would receive from me, so they might not be eager to help me out there...</p>

<p>Thanks for all of your insight. In the end, I think Cal has more variety than Cornell largely due to location. Also, I keep meeting people who went to Cal, maybe it's a sign...</p>

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<p>i just got a 34,000 grant off 52,000 cornell costs… vs almost 50000 cost for berkeley…
what do i do???</p>

<p>berkeley was my first choice, but i could come away from cornell with an engineering degree SANS loans…
maybe berkeley for grad school?</p>