Cal vs. UVa vs. Carnegie Mellon

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I'll be applying to colleges next year, and my mom said that I can apply to eight schools.</p>

<p>I know I'm going to apply to:
Stanford, Princeton, Rice, MIT, Harvard, UT-Austin, and UF.</p>

<p>I'd like to double major, one in engineering (chemical/materials science/other) and something else- maybe political science; science, technology, and society; or environmental science.</p>

<p>I don't know what the last school should be. Finances are kind of a big deal, but I probably won't qualify for much need-based aid. Also, I would definitely like to get out of Florida, but I want to end up somewhere that I can afford (unless I manage to get into Stanford; then all bets are off). The trouble is, if I don't apply to UVa, I'll really only have one safety besides UF. CM and Berkeley are pretty much matches given my stats, as is Rice.</p>

<p>So...where do you think I should apply? Any help is appreciated.</p>

2

<p>I don't know your stats, but you need more safety schools. Also, the out of state schools you mentioned are expensive. Do you have another safety school in Florida for the in state tuition? Did you consider Georgia Tech? What about Rochester Institute of Technology and Rensellear? Even with high stats, National Merit, etc. there are no guarantees.</p>

3

<p>If I go to school in Florida, then I'm going to go to UF, because it's the best institution in the state and it has the best undergrad engineering program.</p>

<p>Here's a brief overview of my stats:
4.0 uw GPA in Honors/AP/AICE/DE classes
2310 SAT
4 years Odyssey of the Mind: 4th, 14th, 1st, and To Be Determined at World Finals; also coached Primary team this year
4 years Future Problem Solving: State competition every year; this year, 3rd place International FPS Scenario Writing</p>

<p>I know that they're expensive, but as long as my family won't have to pay more than about $10,000 a year I'll be alright. And I think, think, that I'll be able to get some help with scholarships.</p>

<p>Thanks for your help in recommending more safeties. To be honest, I'd really rather apply to another match, but that's why I'm asking. Anyone else?</p>

4

<p>I hate to break it to you but Cal is a match for nobody except the very top CA INSTATE students. Its the most selective public in the coutnry. Only 20% overall got in this year including instate. I go to Cal and am from FL and it is really hard to get into this school OOS, and since your applying to engineering I would tell you to be ready for rejection. OOS and international applications increased by double digits this year alone and they have stats very close or above yours and you will be competing with them for limited spots. I had really good stats too but I think I barely got in. I think a major reason I did get in was because I had taken classes out here the summer prior and used my experience over that summer in my essays. Berkeley admissions are more lenient for instate students, and its very hard for instate students to get in.</p>

5

<p>I think you fail to apply to schools that are actual matches, or safeties for that matter. UCB is not a match for anyone, besides that I doubt they offer merit aid for oos applicants, i may be wrong, but that's my impression. You also need to apply to schools that offer merit aid. That obviously is a big part of you going to college.</p>

<p>Why not look at schools like USC, who have strong engineering, and offer big merit aid for students they want(you'd fit in since your stats are at the top).</p>

<p>Last time I checked four of your schools didn't offer merit aid (MIT, Harvard,Stanford, Princeton,) so you're seriously doing yourself a disservice by applying to that many reaches who dont offer merit aid. </p>

<p>Have you also looked at Harvey Mudd College/Claremont McKenna College, they have a joint 5 year program where you double major(a science/engineering major at HM and a social science major at CMC)? CMC is amazing at political science/econ/international relations, and Harvey Mudd is sometimes referred to as the sister school of CalTech. They offer i believe 20 full tuition merit scholarship for this program, for all 5 years to incoming freshman.</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
I know I'm going to apply to:
Stanford, Princeton, Rice, MIT, Harvard, UT-Austin, and UF.</p>

<p>I'd like to double major, one in engineering (chemical/materials science/other)

[/quote]

You have some good schools for your interests. I would be inclined to drop Harvard and add Northwestern, Georgia Tech and another in-state financial/back-up safety for added insurance.</p>

7

<p>PS what about New College of Florida, isn't it like the honors public college in florida</p>

<p>i heard they have a free application if you apply online, so that can be 9 schools without breaking the budget</p>

8

<p>You need to read this thread and the related article:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/498251-another-applicant-rejected-all-ivies.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/498251-another-applicant-rejected-all-ivies.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>You need a reality check. You have very good stats but these are just a little bit of who you are at 17 or 18 years old. They are not the keys to guaranteed riches and success. If you do it right, they can be the keys to getting a good education which could be a tool you use, along with hard work, persistence, intelligence, and good luck to be successful, however you define success. </p>

<p>You would expect that you will get into some, maybe all, of these schools; but, as you can see with the kid in Texas, nothing is a sure thing. You need to bump off a couple of those status symbol schools and add in a couple of schools that give good merit aid to the ones they see as the top 1% of who they believe they can convince to enroll. Don't be surprised if some of those on your list figure you will get into Harvard or Stanford and they know you will choose Harvard or Stanford over them so they reject you because they don't want you to negatively impact their yield rate, which then hurts their rankings. And, in that case, what if Stanford and Harvard figure they've got enough kids just like you and decide they'll pass on you, figuring that Rice or Carnegie Mellon will take you. </p>

<p>And, you need to make sure that all of the schools on your list know you are interested -- visit, call, return the interest cards. My cousin's daughter has similarly lofty stats as yours, applied to 13 schools -- accepted at 11 including Notre Dame, Duke, Johns Hopkins, U Maryland, Villanova, Virginia Tech, Carnegie Mellon, Columbia and I can't remember the rest and turned down at Bucknell and Princeton, the only two she didn't visit. </p>

<p>Kid, you're doing great, but this is a marathon and, while you are among the leaders, you are only at mile 2. </p>

<p>Good luck with whatever you do and wherever you end up.</p>

<p>--K9Leader</p>

9

<p>I'd second UCBChemEGrad's suggestion. And if you really want a high ranking public, I'd drop UCB and add Michigan. Both are just as expensive and offer few merit aids for OOS. However, Michigan takes in 35% OOS vs. less than 10% for UCB. You'd be a strong match for Michigan.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
I'll be applying to colleges next year, and my mom said that I can apply to eight schools.

[/quote]
That's your first problem. In this day and age, it would be foolish to say you're only going to apply to X amount of schools. The more you do applications and stuff, the more you'll realize what you're looking for in colleges. I know application fees are a b****, but they're a drop in the ocean compared to the actual amount you'd be paying for most of the schools you listed. Another thing to realize is that the stronger your application is, the more choices you have in regards to snagging merit-based aid, and the more random the admissions decisions will be due to the type of school you're considering. In other words, the stronger your application, the more schools you need to apply to (generally).</p>

<p>Trust me, the months after January are very difficult if you're always thinking to yourself, "Dang, why didn't I apply there?"</p>

11

<p>I agree with Goblue81. Apply to Michigan. If you apply early enough (before October), you have a good shot at some merit money.</p>

12

<p>I REALLY appreciate what everyone has to say. I'd just like to address a few things.</p>

<p>I know that I'm not going to get into every school that I apply to. It's a fact. That's one of the reasons that I'm applying to four really big reach schools. But I've also heard (on CC and elsewhere) that if you get into one of those schools, they will make sure you can go there. I'm not sure how true that is, but that, and the advice that you should apply to schools without regard to their financial aid, is what I'm thinking.</p>

<p>Like, I know Harvard's Aid is crazy good for students right now. I went to a meeting Monday with adcoms, one of which was from Harvard, and he said that students whose families make between 120K-180K will be expected to pay 10% of their incomes. My family's income is roughly 130K, and 13,000 is about the top of what we could afford a year, by my calculations, so that's one reason I was thinking of applying there.</p>

<p>Also, to everyone saying that I don't really have a shot at UCB, I went to this link:
University</a> of California: StatFinder
and looked at the columns for out of state, with my GPA and my SAT's, and of the 1252 who fit this bill and applied, 657 were granted admission. That's about 50%, which is a match by definition.</p>

<p>Although Michigan is a good school, it's not good enough for me to give up at least a semi-warm climate. If I'm going to go to somewhere cold, I think that it will be in the Northeast, at a place where anyone would endure the cold.</p>

<p>liek0806: That's a really good suggestion. I wrote off Harvey Mudd because they were a pure engineering school (same thing with the Cooper Union) but if they have a joint program with Claremont McKenna, that could be really cool, especially since it's still in a warm climate. :)</p>

<p>USC's a pretty good suggestion too. Their engineering program is pretty equal to Florida's, but I do want to get out of state and if they offered me aid, I might be able to afford it. God knows they've sent me enough stuff. ;)</p>

<p>And lgellar: You may conceive it as foolish but I know it as fact. The eight schools are pretty non-negotiable. Maybe, maybe, I'll get one more in.</p>

<p>No one's commenting on UVa or CM though, which surprises me.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone though for your suggestions. These are a huge help to me and I really appreciate everyone taking the time to take an interest. :)</p>

13

<p>OP:</p>

<p>Cal Engineering is much more selective than Letters & Sciences, which is primarily what the UC data is based upon. L&S = match; Engineernig, prolly not.</p>

14

<p>
[quote]
I'd like to double major, one in engineering (chemical/materials science/other) and something else- maybe political science; science, technology, and society; or environmental science.

[/quote]

How serious are you about your major? If you really want to be an engineer, why would you consider UVa. It's not known for its engineering or science programs.</p>

<p>Similarly, why consider Harvard? It doesn't even have a Chemical Engineering discipline.</p>

<p>Aside from Computer, CMU's other engineering programs are not much better than UF's. Ditto for its science and political science programs. It's certainly not in a semi-warm climate area, or part of the Northeast.</p>

<p>Re: UCB
Let's say UCB is a match for you... It's certainly not a safe match, especially if you need financial aids. There is a reason why the OOS yield is only 27% (17% for OOS applicants with the best stats).</p>

15

<p>I wouldn't discourage you from applying to Berkeley...its engineering program, especially chemical engineering, is top-notch...;)</p>

16

<p>eyedotwo, Pittsburgh is not "semi-warm". It isn't even "semi-cold"! Pitt has cold winters, full stop. Yes, Michigan and Boston winters are colder, but freezing is freezing. If you are considering applying to CMU, you should definitely consider applying to Michigan.</p>

17

<p>I second the question as to why, if you want engineering, you are considering Harvard and UVa. UVa is a great school but in Virginia the school for engineering is Virginia Tech. Georgia Tech is also a possibility.</p>

<p>The other thing is to look for some schools where the online application is free. Three years ago when my son was applying, he had five schools he wanted to apply to (Princeton, Penn, W&M, U Delaware, and Ithaca) and of all the others he looked at thought U Maryland and American were okay but he liked the others better. However, Maryland and American were free applications so he kept his options open and applied. He was accepted by all but the Ivies, and his choice came down to W&M or Ithaca, which were his first and second choices anyway. (He chose W&M.) But had certain things changed between app time and acceptance time, he had two more options (both of which offered nice merit aid).</p>

18

<p>UVa is not a safety for any student, instate or out of state. Decisions are arrived at by an holistic approach. Undergrad engineers from places like UVa and Harvard are very well regarded -intelligence, people skills,critical thinking, networking,etc. The kids that gravitate to engineering schools like UVa and Harvard are bright and also tend to have the whole package that some(of course, not all) at very tech schools may not have.</p>

19

<p>I know this is stupid, but I guess that I've been living a bit too much by the rankings. But that's why I'm here: to get help from people who have something valuable to say, that some stupid statistic isn't going to tell me.</p>

<p>For some reason, I had completely written off Michigan and USC and Georgia Tech, even though they really are good schools. I can't say I'm seeing so blindly anymore. And I had narrowed in on UVa and Harvard for two reasons: the first was said by sevmom, and that was that engineering majors from these schools are generally regarded as well-rounded, something I would definitely hope to be called. Also, they have relatively strong PoliSci programs, right? And I thought that that was a big plus, even if down the road I decided to focus on something else. However, sevmom, I was considering UVa a match and not a safety.</p>

<p>Since everyone seems to agree that UVa's engineering program isn't their strength, though, and the cost of tuition and the rest would outweigh the benefits of going (that is what I'm hearing, right?), I probably won't apply there. That frees up another spot, if I so choose to use it. I still think that I'll apply to Harvard though. Their aid and reputation is too good to at least attempt to attain.</p>

<p>But now, that mention of Harvey Mudd and Claremont McKenna is really interesting me. I checked the former out at CollegeBoard and it seems pretty freakin expensive. Plus, in "majors", the only engineering discipline is "engineering- general". That can't be the case, can it? I mean, I know it's a tiny school, but there's a bit more diversity than that, right?</p>

<p>And finally, does anyone know of a thread or website that would list colleges with free online (or not online) applications? I doubt many of the schools that I would consider applying to would have free applications, but I guess it's worth a shot, just for a little added security.</p>

<p>Thanks again for everyone's help. :)</p>

20

<p>hey eyedewtwo, i found out about the claremont & harvey mudd joint program from going to an info session on claremont mckenna's campus. they specifically said they offered that full tuition for all 5 years to 20 incoming freshman who choose to seek that program. the following info comes from harvey mudd's website.
<a href="http://www.eng.hmc.edu/EngWebsite/DeptHbook/05-06AdvisingHandbook.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.eng.hmc.edu/EngWebsite/DeptHbook/05-06AdvisingHandbook.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>i think you should probably contact claremont mckenna and specifically ask them about the program, because you end up spending three years at claremont and 2 at harvey mudd. they should be able to offer you more info. the link above just states the engineering & econ combo. when i went to the info session, the guy mentioned that you were free to do any science major or engineer major at HMC, and you had to do a humanities/social science major from CMC. </p>

<p>I personally love USC, they do give full tuition scholarships as well, and a lot of it is based on merit.</p>

<p>I'm still going to push USC and CMC/Harvey Mudd on your list, they're a lot more realistic and offer merit aid. </p>

<p>BTW with policies like the one harvard mentioned of 10 percent of your parents income, you have to look at whether or not they look at the value of your parents assets/investments. If your parents have alot of assets/investments, that 13K per year that you thought would be the 10 percent might actually end up being more.</p>