Cal vs. UVa vs. Carnegie Mellon

College Search & Selection
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<p>Oh! This is great! I'm definitely interested in pursuing both of these schools now. I knew that USC gave hella-crazy scholarships for athletes but never knew they were so devoted to academics as well. Like I said, they haven't stopped sending me stuff, but I had gotten so tired of it, I would just throw it away without looking at it. It's weird to think about going there now, because I've hated them in football for so many years since they have been a powerhouse to rival Florida (who I support, but don't want to go to). The ONLY other thing that bothers me about USC is the fact that it's like right next to a not so great neighborhood. I don't think that that would pose a serious problem, but I guess it's something to consider.</p>

<p>And like I said, I'm really interested in the Claremont-HM cross registration. Thanks endlessly for the info; I never would have known about that program if you hadn't mentioned it. And with a top engineering school and LAC! What a great combo. The only thing I would have changed about the progarm would have been three years at Harvey Mudd and two at Claremont McKenna, but it still sounds great.</p>

<p>And to answer your question, I don't THINK that they have very many assets/investments besides my and my brother's mutual funds. My dad just got the taxable income statement thing in the mail and he said that that was the amount that Harvard would probably be going by. I don't know if this is right, but I do know that when Harvard calculates ability to pay, they don't factor in the value of your house, unlike most other colleges.</p>

<p>Wow, this thread has changed course. But I guess the question begs itself now, of the new list, where should I apply?</p>

<p>I'll absolutely definitely not a doubt in my mind apply to:
Stanford, Rice, Princeton, Florida, and UT-Austin (and probably MIT, but I'll put it in the next just for those who think I'd be better off with fewer reaches and more matches)</p>

<p>But I don't know which three I would choose of:
MIT (saw that one coming, didn't you?), Harvard, Harvey Mudd/Claremont McKenna, Southern Cal, and Berkeley.</p>

<p>Again, I really can't tell everyone just how much help this is and how thankful I am to everyone, especially liek0608. Whenever you get tired of my never-ending spew of questions, just let me know and I'll give it a rest for a while. ;)</p>

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<p>Bumperama.</p>

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<p>I think you should do MIT, Harvey Mudd/CMC & USC</p>

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<p>
[quote]

Aside from Computer, CMU's other engineering programs are not much better than UF's.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Are you serious ? CMU is ranked top 10 for overall engineering by US News & WR and top 5 by the London Times (THES)/QS; UF on the other hand probably doesn't even make to top 20 ! </p>

<p>Moreover, it is important to stress that, in addition to being a top school for CS , engineering, and robotics, CMU also actually offers top programs in areas as diverse as applied math, architecture, business, cognitive psychology, drama, economics, information systems, music, philosophy, public policy and management, and statistics. Even in the broader Humanities area, CMU's History department for example, although not very well ranked for undergrad studies, is actually among the top 10 most productive departments of its kind in the US according to faculty scholarly productivity.</p>

<p>Having said that, CMU is nevertheless a very expensive private university that offers little financial aid compared to its peer institutions.</p>

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<p>I hope that in your mind you have UT-Austin as a reach school. You have great stats but the space available for OOS has gotten very limited due to the top 10% instate automatic admit rule. It seems to help if you apply very early in the fall. You can check the UT-Austin discussion boards for the latest information. There are some very knowledgeable people posting there.</p>

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<p>You will not get meaningful financial aid as an out-of-state applicant to most state schools, Berkeley in particular.</p>

<p>If your parents can't pay more than $10,000 -- and you don't qualify for aid -- you need to seriously rethink your choices. You need to focus less on prestige and more on the realities of college costs and college generosity.</p>

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<p>As others said, your analysis is wrong if you are applying to UCB engineering. Each engineering program has a different admit rate, some are easier than others to get into. You'd need to research those specifically to get an idea if you are a "match" or not. Looking at the aggregate statistics tells you very little.</p>

<p>Anyway, the UC application requires no letters of reference, neither from teachers nor guidance counselors. The essay is short. Lobby for it to be #9 for those reasons.</p>

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<p>I second what Katliamom says. State schools offer lower overall tuition, but not much in the way of scholarships. If your family's spending limit is really $13,000 on a $130,000 income, you are in a tough spot for financial aid. Closing that gap should be your number one priority. </p>

<p>While they are top schools, I also don't think you are going to get much aid from Harvey Mudd or CMU, at least not enough to counteract their $50,000 a year pricetags.</p>

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<p>Certainly $13K on a $130K income won't get you anywhere at Berkeley OOS. Even if you were in-state I doubt if you'd get a dime of financial aid. If that is the money issue, cross Berkeley off your list it's not practical.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Are you serious ? CMU is ranked top 10 for overall engineering by US News & WR

[/quote]

Since you mentioned USNWR, here is the individual engineering departmental ranking (UG):</p>

<p>Aerospace: NR
Agricultural: NR
Biomedical: NR
Chemical: 14
Civil: 12
Computer: 2
Electrical: 10
Engineering Sci: NR
Environmental: 10
Industrial: NR
Materials: 11
Mechanical: 10</p>

<p>Not quite the image of an engineering powerhouse at the level of a Cal/UIUC/Michigan. The OP is in-state at UF. S/he is interesting in Chem/Materials Engineering and Political Sciences, Sciences, etc. Perhaps I should say that aside from Computer, CMU is not THAT much better than UF ... certainly not worth the extra $$$.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Since you mentioned USNWR, here is the individual engineering departmental ranking (UG):</p>

<p>Aerospace: NR
Agricultural: NR
Biomedical: NR
Chemical: 14
Civil: 12
Computer: 2
Electrical: 10
Engineering Sci: NR
Environmental: 10
Industrial: NR
Materials: 11
Mechanical: 10</p>

<p>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>CMU doesn't offer majors in Aerospace Engineering, Agricultural Engineering or Industrial Engineering. On the other hand, EE and CompEng are not offered as separate majors, but rather as a single ECE degree (hence, the distinction made by US News doesn't really make a lot of sense). Ditto for Civil and Environmental Engineering, which again are one single integrated major at CMU. </p>

<p>In any case, even if we ignored the facts mentioned above, your list shows that, according to US News, CMU is ranked top 10 in EE, CompE (#2), EnvE, and MechE, and top 15 in MatE, CivE, and ChemEng. In fact, all engineering majors at CMU, with the exception of BiomE (which BTW is only offered as a double major) are ranked top 15. I'm not sure, but I doubt the University of Florida has a higher overall ranking in engineering!</p>

<p>I agree with you that CMU is not competitive with UCB or UIUC (except for ECE or CS). However, contrary to what you implied, CMU is clearly better than UF as far as general engineering is concerned.</p>

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<p>Thanks again to everyone who's contributing to the thread. As of right now, I'm agreeing with Liek, thinking MIT, USC, and Harvey Mudd/Claremont McKenna. Oh, and HM tuition won't cost anything if I get accepted to the joint program, right? By the way, Liek, do you know how may people apply for that program every year? Because if very few people get accepted for that particular program, I really can't afford to apply there in terms of safeties/matches/reaches, you know what I mean?</p>

<p>CM definitely has its stuff together when it comes to engineering, but I think the price tag, the location/climate, and the fact that it's apparently pretty difficult for engineering majors at CM to double major makes it a less appealing choice. Berkeley, while a great institution and somewhere I could definitely see myself at, isn't really realistic, in terms of my likelihood to get in and/or afford it.</p>

<p>I am not considering UT a reach, even though it has the top 10% rule. I know it will be more difficult than in years passed to get in OOS, but people have generally said to add c. 50 points to average SAT and a little bit onto weighted GPA to see what OOS competition is probably like, and I still fit the bill pretty comfortably. Who knows? Maybe I won't get in anywhere but Florida. But if that's the case, then so be it. It just wasn't meant to be anywhere else.</p>

<p>But on a slightly different note, where did you get those stats from USNWR? I bought the latest college rankings issue and it just stated the top five in each category. If there's a place that I can access that information without spending any more money, that would be super helpful. I know you're not supposed to judge schools by their rankings, but if I'm applying to schools that have terrible chemical/materials programs but great overall engineering programs, I'd like to know about it beforehand.</p>

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<p>other instuitutions also do that 3-2 program. Caltech has an agreement with:
Bowdoin College (ME)
Bryn Mawr College (PA)
Grinnell College (IA)
Haverford College (PA)
Mt. Holyoke College (MA)
Oberlin College (OH)
Occidental College (CA)
Ohio Wesleyan University (OH)
Pomona College (CA)
Reed College (OR)
Spelman College (GA)
Wesleyan University (CT)
Whitman College (WA)
Caltech</a> Undergraduate Admissions: 3/2 Applicants
you can also research other institutions with this option because it soulnd like it would be a good fit for you if you want to do both engineering and polysci</p>

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<p>oh and here's that full ug eng. rank listing
<a href="http://www.villanova.edu/engineering/assets/documents/USNews08.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.villanova.edu/engineering/assets/documents/USNews08.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>
[quote]
it's apparently pretty difficult for engineering majors at CM to double major makes it a less appealing choice.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Just want to say this isn't true. Most of my friends (pretty much all engineering/CS majors) got double majors in undergrad. Many in BME, a lot in math, a few in Engineering & Public Policy, a few in psychology, and one even dual-degreed in the school of fine arts on french horn performance. I would have done a physics double major if I didn't decide to graduate a semester early instead. I was a MSE major at CMU for undergrad if you want to PM me any questions about life there.</p>

<p>That said, if cost is going to be a major issue, CMU might be difficult to attend. They're not exactly known for being generous with financial aid.</p>

<p>You might want to also try applying to Caltech. I know the people here say the humanities classes they've taken are some of their favorite classes, even though they may have hated them back in high school.</p>

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<p>eyedewtwo you should personally call CMC and ask the question. CMC likes students who show interest in their school. I'd start now. Maybe ask to speak with financial aid, and ask them what kind of merti scholarships they offer, and how you were specifically interested in their joint program. I just know they offered 20 of those scholarships to incoming freshman. thats what i remember the guy saying in the admissions info session. and the incoming freshmen class is less than 400 i think, and not all of those incoming freshmen are pursuing that program, so i'm thinking your chances are good..</p>

<p>either way cmc is one school that also guarantees to meet 100 percent of your need, and they replace student loans with scholarship/grant money. so if your efc is 13000, thats ALL your parents will have to contribute towards your education, the rest they cover. they're really good at meeting your EFC.</p>

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<p>dnrcgirl102: I clicked on the link that you provided and that's the same list that's in the USNWR that I bought a few months ago. It only lists the top 5 in each category, whereas the lists above list what looks like the top 15. Any chance you have a link to that information. Also, the reason that that 3-2 agreement at CMC/HM is so appealing is because it pays full tuition scholarships to everyone in the program. Does Caltech's 3-2 programs do that as well? Or is tuition just as high as it would be regularly?</p>

<p>liek: I think I'll do that this summer. I'll have more time then, but it sounds like something worth checking into for sure.</p>

<p>RacinReaver: Thanks for disillusioning me. Someone PM'd me and said a few things about CM, and one was that it was nearly impossible to double major. Based on your experience, that may not be the truest statement, but I think the reasons not to attend (or apply to) CM (the money and weather, most specifically) make other schools more appealing. That said, thanks for the input about double majoring at a top schools. It's encouraging to see that I'll probably be able to do it even if I go to a top school.</p>