Hello I am new to this forum and I am not sure if this is the place to ask but I noticed there are some older posts on this board regarding freshman who were interested in taking Calculus BC so I thought someone here could give input/advice.
I have a daughter who really enjoys math. She just completed 6th grade at a California private school that serves grades 6-12. Before attending this private school, my daughter attended a private K-6 school where she was taking math classes several grades above her grade level so by the end of 3rd grade she had finished the curriculum at the school and started self-studying. By the end of 5th grade she had completed Prealgebra, Algebra A and B and Geometry through the online math program, AOPS. After requesting a proper placement exam, my daughter was placed into Algebra II this past year along with several other middle school students, two of which were in 7th grade. Understandably, my daughter enjoyed taking the class with these other middle schoolers as the majority of students in her math class were high schoolers, most in 10th grade.
When setting up her curriculum for this upcoming year, the academic counselor suggested that my daughter wait until 9th grade to take Calculus BC for two reasons. The only other math courses the school offers are multivariable calculus, linear algebra and AP Statistics so my daughter wouldn’t be able to take math each year during high school.
The academic counselor also brought up that my daughter wouldn’t be able to get a “bump” in her GPA if she took AP or honors classes before 9th grade. I am wondering if not having such a “bump” would matter to colleges? Would colleges assume she had a lower grade then she received if she is not given this “bump”? The counselor also mentioned that the grade would not go toward her high school GPA. Could it hurt my daughter’s class ranking if she takes AP or honors courses that won’t count toward her high school GPA? Would such an issue be offset if she takes additional college courses at the local college or university or through Stanford’s Online high school? She wants to continue to take math with this small cohort of middle schoolers though they would be in 9th grade or higher when she’s in 8th and therefore they would qualify for this “bump”. She also was thinking to take a high school honors physics after she completes precalculus. What ramifications might there be for taking AP or honors courses in middle school?
Are you wishing for her to take the AP test and get credit when she goes to college? If so, you might want to check and see if the test score would still be valid when she goes to college. ACT and SAT scores from 8th grade generally are not acceptable for college admission when the child is a senior in high school.
I’m surprised your school doesn’t offer something between Algebra II and Calc BC. Our school has a pre-calc/AB calc class. Any chance she could take a class like that?
Depends on her high school GPA, what type of bump your high school gives to AP or honors classes and which college she is applying to. As well, would she take a different AP or honors class that she wouldn’t be able to take if she took 4 math classes in high school?
No, but they will compare her GPA to other students coming out of the same high school.
Yes, see above.
It depends on whether her home high school gives credit for those courses.
She will run out of math courses to take in high school which means she either doesn’t take math one year in high school or she finds another source for math for her last year. This also means she may have difficulty finding a college that has sufficient math for her to study.
She may not be developmentally ready for calculus in 8th grade or multivariable calculus in 9th grade etc and get a grade lower than she otherwise would have if she took the course a year later.
Seems like the main concern would be to plan a math progression that keeps her interested and does not run out of math courses at the high school and local colleges.
Is there any particular local concern about GPA weighting and class rank in high school? E.g. highly competitive high school in Texas? Colleges will know that she is top-end at math whether she is on the +4 or +5 track.
I’m surprised the counselor did not bring up a third reason, which in my mind, is more critical than the other 2: A traditional math progression is Algebra 2 → Precalculus → Calculus. If your daughter is in Algebra 2 in the 8th grade then she should take precalc in the 9th,
The other reasons the counselor mentioned, and the points raised by the users above, are all valid with one exception (noted below), There is truly no reason for your daughter to rush things.
While the advice to check potential colleges’ AP policies is excellent, in general, if a college gives credit for a particular score, they will give it regardless of what grade the student got the score.
@skieurope - I think the daughter took Algebra II in 6th, would take Pre-Calc in 7th, and hit BC in 8th. There are only three other math options after that so she would complete everything her school had to offer in 11th.
OP - is there not a way to do AB Calc in 8th and BC in 9th?
Yes she is scheduled to take Precalculus in 7th grade and was placed in the same class as the other middle schoolers who were in her Algebra II course.
Her school does not offer Calc AB. The A portion of Calculus is covered in the Precalculus course that she’s scheduled to take in 7th grade.
She can take the AP test in 8th grade but I believe you’re right that it doesn’t count. If not, I don’t know much about AP exams but wouldn’t she be able to take the exam in 9th grade even though she did the Calculus BC course the year before?
@Hoggirl You are correct; I misinterpreted. Thanks for setting me straight.
As I said upthread, this will depend on the college, but for the most part, it would count. While the plural of anecdote is not data, I took 2 APs in the 8th grade, and 1 counted at my college. The other did not count because the college does not give credit for the exam, not because I took it in 8th grade.
Yes, that is also an option.
So that all being the case, I would not be concerned about what the impact of one course may or may not have on a GPA for 2 reasons.
• The impact of one course on a 3.5 year GPA is miniscule
• In almost all instance, the weighted GPA for college admissions is less important that overall rigor and unweighted GPA since there is no common weighting metric used.
As for whether she will be developmentally ready for Calculus, her performance in her upcoming Precalculus course this year would play a huge role in determining that, of course. Currently, I don’t anticipate this would be an issue nor do I anticipate she would receive a higher grade by waiting a year based on her performance thus far. She enjoys being with this particular group of students and wishes to take her math courses with them and I imagine they will be taking Calculus BC when she’s in 8th grade.
I think the counselors concern about not taking math for all four years is that my daughter wouldn’t be able to qualify for the school’s STEM track. However, the school does accept coursework done at other schools such as the local university and college. I am not sure on their policy for Stanford’s Online high school courses but I don’t see why the school would not.
As far as whether there is a local concern about GPA weighting or class ranking, I have no clue. I am really ignorant when it comes to high school/college related matters since my daughter is only in middle school. I didn’t know what a “bump” was until I spoke with the counselor when it was time to schedule my daughter’s 7th grade courses.
I would get a written explanation of how things works and how grades will be assessed. It would be a terrible shame if she was at any disadvantage by taking these classes early ( including having any gaps). It seems as though you are very lucky that your school has the offerings. My kids would have killed to have those courses available at those ages. Just wasn’t available at all.
Could she continue with AoPS in middle school, taking Intermediate Algebra and whatever else interests her at AoPS. maybe Intro to Number Theory and Intro to C&P, to slow things down by another year, putting off precalc till 8th? Just a thought, though I understand how nice it is for the advanced middle schooler to have access to an in-person classroom experience for math.
(I have a rising 7th grader about to take Algebra 2 at school. The downside of his particular school is that it doesn’t allow middle schoolers to take honors versions of high school math. From previous experience, it is likely that when he takes the honors precalc placement test for the private high school his siblings attend, he may not pass and thus his path will be slowed down the less-pleasant way, by having to repeat at least some material, taking honors precalc in 9th at the private school after regular precalc in 8th at the public school. C’est la vie.)
Will the school permit your daughter take an online AoPS class in 8th grade and then take BC Calc in 9th grade?
AoPS pre-calc class is more rigorous than a traditional pre-calc class and covers topics not typically included in a traditional pre-calc class. This would be a good choice, imo, even if your daughter has already completed a pre-calc class at her school. Another option would be to take AoPS Introduction to Counting & Probability first semester and Introduction to Number Theory 2nd semester. My kids really enjoyed these classes, especially the counting & probability.
I would recommend Stanford online high school for extra classes or your local college for supplemental classes.
There tends to be a lot of gender discrimination when it comes to girls and math so be wary of teachers or others trying to hold her back.
Not sure about whether they would accept AoPS courses. The school courses are UC approved and I don’t think AoPS courses are but I expect that shouldn’t be a huge issue though I don’t know. I know the College Board did approve AoPS’s Calculus course as an AP Calculus BC course.
Everyone has made some great suggestions. Just to add, my daughter already took Intro to P&C and Intro NT sometime between taking Algebra A and B which I think is AoPS’s recommended sequence. Also great idea on Precalculus but while she was taking Algebra II at school, she also took Intermediate Algebra through AoPS and plans to do the same this year with Precalculus. Her school’s curriculum is not as rigorous as AoPS so she is really taking the math classes at her school for the in-person experience - she really enjoys learning from her classmates and talking about math to other students who really enjoy math.
It’s a great suggestion for her to take other AoPS courses during 8th grade and she could do Intermediate NT and P&C or just take AoPS’s Calculus in 8th and take Calculus at her school in 9th which would be extremely repetitive but she real issue is that she wants to stay with this math cohort. I have no problem with her taking the course in 8th but I just would like to know if there would be consequences.
Thanks for the great suggestion of getting a written explanation for how these things work, HappyTimes2001. I’ll get the counselor to explain all of this before my daughter sets her schedule for the following year. My daughter knows how fortunate she is to have these courses available to her though it’s only through the expense of private schooling. I don’t imagine the same opportunities would be available through public school.
That’s a shame, evergreen5. Is the precalc at the private school that much more rigorous than the precalc course at the public school? If your son doesn’t want to repeat the material in the course, would there be some way for your son to supplement his public school precalc course in order to cover the material/rigor set by the private school?
@vox_nihili At least in the past, the private was super strict on placement testing (only honors level) and we had this issue with our other kids. We’ll see what happens in a couple of years - it could change. It’s not a big deal for him because he’s not one to seek more outside of class and he’ll have plenty of time in high school to get to multivariable.
Thanks ucbalumnus! That’s really helpful. I expect in that case her school probably would credit the AoPS courses. She could probably take Intermediate Number Theory and C&P during high school for credit in addition to taking courses at the local colleges.
DS was in a similar situation as your daughter. He self-studied primarily using AoPS. He did their PreCalc and Calc in eighth grade but took AP Calc BC in high school for the credit. When he first started working through the AP Calc questions after having completed AoPS Calc he did not get them all correct. He said that AoPS was much deeper and more theoretical but he did find that he needed to gain experience working the AP questions. The class was a relatively easy A for him and he took the AP and got a 5 on the BC and the AB subscore. He has also taken all of the other AoPS sequence including WOOT.