<p>Our son is a sophomore in high school. Math is not his thing. He's doing a trig/pre-cal class right now and has a B-. He wants to study film production and will apply to USC and to UCLA, although they are reaches. He'll also be applying to some safer schools. Will he need to go ahead and do calculus to be competitive at these schools even though he will not be entering a technical major? I think it might be better to spend the time and energy on an AP literature class or something like that (which he can probably do well in) instead of calculus which I am guessing he won't do so well in. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>Schools expect to see a student taking an ambitious program in all areas, no matter what the proposed major. He has to take math at least through his junior year. AP literature would be expected, a given. DOes his school offer statistics? It might be easier to manage.</p>
<p>i took ap stat my senior year after taking three years of the lowest math sequences possible in my program (i was ib) and i got in to schools just fine. i know people who didnt take math at all senior year and went to places like upenn, bryn mawr, berkeley, etc. but they had otherwise extremely demanding programs and top stats.</p>
<p>timely:</p>
<p>Normally, pre-calc is a junior class, so your son is not doing so badly!</p>
<p>My older S did not take Calc (he became a humanities major). He did take a fourth year of math. He was admitted to highly selective LACs.</p>
<p>Finally, I know someone who is absolutely math-phobic and applied to schools where he knew he would never have to take another math class. He certainly did not take Calc! He is now at USC.</p>
<p>i never took pre-calc let alone calc and i was admitted to several top tier schools</p>
<p>AP Statistics is a slam-dunk, if your son thinks he needs another math class. And not a bad thing, frankly, for life skills.</p>
<p>timely,
I happened to be having lunch with a friend today and we were discussing this particular issue. She told me that her child did not go beyond pre-calculus in high school. (Finished that course junior year.) This child is now a freshman humanities major at the university considered by many to be the most "elite" in the country.</p>
<p>We're debating this very question for my junior daughter, and it really helps to hear of people who did not take Calculus and managed to do well in the college admissions game. Her GC is really pushing her to take Calculus, but she'd like to do statistics instead and load up on other classes. It is a tough decision.</p>
<p>You can even gain admission to Engineering schools without hs calculus, but not likely to the elite/highly selective schools (speaking from first-hand experience with my step-grandson). However, if you are planning science/Engineering in college, you are well advised to take the strongest math program possible in hs. </p>
<p>If not, then I would venture the guess that your specific hs math preparation will not be as much of a factor as other aspects of your application (GPA, scores, overall strength of your hs coursework, essays, recs).</p>
<p>My D is is taking PreCal A or whatever as a junior, and is going to take APStat as a senior. Her teacher said, but EVERYONE takes two years of calc...well, after my D told her that she wanted to study law, social jsutice, history, etc, and that Stat is a much better subject for her interest areas, so 4 years of math, with one year that might actuaully have some real job applications</p>
<p>And the GC and the Math teacher learned something, that a student can figure out what is best for them, and even though
"everyone" takes 2 years of calc, that might not be the best route</p>
<p>My D will be taking two history classes next year, so its not like she will be taking an easy load</p>
<p>From a former math teacher (me): If math is "not his thing" then Calculus should be avoided. My son had some initial trouble in AP Calc, and math was his thing (he originally contemplated a Comp Sci or science degree, but ended up in something artsy-fartsy). He pulled out with some good grades, but only after a LOT of study and work.</p>
<p>The problem with calculus is that - at each step - you CANNOT go on until you "get it." It you don't, and the class moves on, you could be unable to move with them, watching the grades go down the tubes. </p>
<p>So, let there be some honest conversations between the student and the current math teacher. If the recommendation is not enthusiastic, then other approaches would be best.</p>
<p>I concur with the other parents. Math IS my d's thing....or was...lol! and she is working extremely hard just to keep a B in AP Calc BC. [She is also taking AP Chem, AP Lit, AP Gov't/Econ, Honors Anatomy plus Advanced Journalism and a 6:30 a.m. Communications class...so that may be part of the problem as well.] But I've repeatedly read that students should build an application around their strengths. If your son is interested in film production, he should do as much as possible in that area...and if he feels the need to show an additional math, then AP Statistics surely would be adequate. But if it keeps him out a great class that will build case for film school admission or takes valuable time from building a portfolio, then it may not be worth it.</p>
<p>Btw....has he considered UT-Austin? They have quite an independent film community in Austin.</p>
<p>We have a similar situation with our S who would like to graduate with 3 years of H.S. math. Which meets the requirement. So can anyone name colleges where you don't ever have to take another Math class?</p>
<p>I would hope calculus is not required for non-science/engineering degree applications. As my bro's 10th grade math teacher told him, if your strength and interests are elsewhere, don't waste time struggling to get good grades in math. Focus your energy on the courses relevant to your aspirations, and just make sure you pass what is necessary for your diploma but useless for your future career.</p>
<p>AP Stat or even a humanities class seems like the way to go. A number of my friends took no ap calc and got into fine schools. Not technical fields, but if that isn't your goal anyways, you certainly haven't lost anything...and probably have gained more from a relevant course.</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>I took calculus in HS & then tried it again in college as my 1st semester as a freshman. It never made sense to me & I never needed it to transfer to my out-of-state U & then go on to law school. I took statistics in my field in college which was helpful in interpreting the numbers used in studies.
I never used calculus or trig for anything in my life or sociology or law & to this day don't have a great understanding of either subject (tho I did OK in them).
Since my son likes math & science (tho he does have to work in calc), he is taking AP calc & his 2nd year of AP physics this year as a senior. His school only offers one year of calc (most take it as an AP in senior year) & the students get into great colleges & go into pre-med, engineering & other challenging fields.
Son did take beginning statistics over the summer at a local college & found it easy though was disappointed that the material covered wasn't as in depth as he had hoped.</p>
<p>I would use EXTREME caution before deciding NOT to take Calculus in HS. I believe that it will be MUCH harder for a struggling math student to take Calculus in college. Some of the concepts take a long time to "get" and a complete review of precal is often necessary. I am far from being an expert in Math, but I believe that a lot of issues in Calculus find their origin in an inadequate precal mastery. </p>
<p>Anyway, I'd rather spend one year of high school with the various opportunities for tutoring and peer help than beind faced to do the same in 13-16 weeks in the first semester in college. Chances are that the fiirst semester will be sufficiently dramatic that the burdern of LEARNING calculus at the college level will be quite a heavy one. </p>
<p>For this reason, it is very important to check the distribution requirements at the targeted schools. If you see a requirement for Calculus, do not assume that it will be a mere walk in the park. IMHO, delaying the ineviatble day of reckoning is not the smartest move. Now if you are sure Calculus won't be needed in your porgram, by all means, skip it! :)</p>
<p>Lastly, please note that the AP Statistics is often considered one of the AP Lite and I doubt that it will be accepted universally as a replacement for Calculus or credit for the ... real statistics classes at the college level. As far as using the learning of "Life Skills" as a litmus test for the validity of HS classes, I do not see a great relevance. I am quite certain that I will NEVER spend time in a lab "wasting" my time with Chemistry ot Biology (outisde of school that is), but it is still part of my distribution requirements. That does not make the classes less valuable for a well-rounded education.</p>
<p>At my daughter's school you need to take pre-calculus to get the better diploma. Is it okay to take that and not go on to calculus? She is on the block schedule, so you take a class for half the year, unless it is AP. She took Algebra in 8th grade, geometry in 9th, math analysis in 10th, then algebra II in 11th grade. So next year would be pre-calculus or AP statistics? She has all As in math, but is not here thing. Should she worry about getting the better diploma and take pre-calculus. She cannot take calculus no matter what. So what to do?</p>
<p>
[quote]
So can anyone name colleges where you don't ever have to take another Math class?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Colleges with a lack of general ed/core curriculum/distribution reqs are being discussed here:</p>
<p>The one I know for certain is Brown.</p>
<p>In college, the quantitative reasoning requirement can often be fulfilled by taking a math-lite course. </p>
<p>Here is a short description of one Harvard course that fulfills the QR requirement:
The Magic of numbers: this course will explore the beauty and mystery of mathematics through a study of the patterns and properties of the natural numbers.......
No mathematical background beyond high school algebra assumed. emphasis is placed on discovery through conjecture and experimentation.</p>
<p>The course was offered last fall by Barry Mazur (mentioned in the Nash biography, A Beautiful mind) and Noam Elkies who also taught the hardest college freshman calculus class, Math 55a.
Other courses are offered by non-mathematicians.</p>
<p>Peter Ellison (Biological anthropology) will offer a course called Counting People (this sounds like a variation of Statistics)..</p>
<p>In other words (and my own older son can attest to this) a student who does not intend to pursue math, economics or science, may never have to deal with anything more advanced than high school algebra (offered in 9th grade in our high school) in college. Whether the student could be admitted to the college in the first place is another question; but again, I offer my son's experience and that of a current USC student who is perhaps the most math-phobic person I know.</p>