Calif race-based admissions law challenged anew

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<p>Calif race-based admissions law challenged anew</p>

<p>By LISA LEFF (AP) – 6 days ago -- AP NEWS</p>

<p>SAN FRANCISCO — The law that bars the University of California from considering race in student admissions violates the civil rights of black, Latino and Native American students who are underrepresented at the state's most prestigious campuses and blocked from seeking redress through the school's governing board, a class-action lawsuit filed Tuesday alleges.</p>

<p>The federal court suit was brought by the Michigan-based, pro-affirmative action group By Any Means Necessary. It challenges the constitutionality of Proposition 209, a ballot measure approved by California voters in 1996 that prohibited racial or gender preferences in public contracting, education and employment.</p>

<p>A federal appeals court and the California Supreme Court have rebuffed earlier efforts to overturn the 13-year-old law. But Shanta Driver, the group's lead counsel, said a renewed federal challenge is timely because the U.S. Supreme Court has since issued a pair of rulings upholding some school desegregation programs. The gap between Latino and black high school graduation rates and UC enrollment has grown since Proposition 209 was enacted.</p>

<p>"Thirteen years of a ban on affirmative action in the state of California has left, in particular UCLA and Berkeley, with just pitiably low numbers of black and Latino students," Driver said.</p>

<p>At the heart of the complaint is the claim that minority students and their parents are being uniquely disadvantaged in violation of their due process rights because Proposition 209 prevented the university's governing Board of Regents from setting admissions policies that include race, gender and ethnicity, but not other characteristics, as factors.</p>

<p>"You can't have a white majority create a situation in which the only people who are barred from going to their regents and saying, 'Adjust the admissions system so more of our sons and daughters can get in' are black, Latino and Native American," Driver said.</p>

<p>UC spokesman Ricardo Vasquez said university lawyers were examining the lawsuit but that it was too soon for officials to comment on it. President Mark Yudof has criticized Proposition 209 in the past.</p>

<p>According to the suit, Latino, black and Native American students make up one-quarter of the freshmen enrolled at UC's nine undergraduate campuses this year — a higher percentage than in 1996. But because underrepresented minorities also comprise a bigger share of all public high school graduates — 48 percent compared with 39 percent in 1996 — their presence at UC schools has not kept pace in the absence of affirmative action, the complaint claims.</p>

<p>Driver said that while a trial judge must first decide whether to hear or dismiss the case, her aim is to get the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to take another look at Proposition 209. In 1997, a three-judge panel of the 9th Circuit ruled unanimously to uphold the measure, which was passed by 54 percent of California voters.</p>

<p>Voters in Washington, Michigan and Nebraska have passed laws similar to Proposition 209. A 1996 court order in Texas and a 2000 vote by the Florida Legislature banned the use of race in school admissions in those states.</p>

<p>Affirmative action needs to be done away with. It's a regressive system. Students should be admitted base on merits. If you can't put up the grades needed, what makes you think you can cut it at a school where the rest of the student body can? Should the professors pass students because of skin color too?</p>

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<p>Thank you for posting this informative article, very interesting read.</p>

<p>However, I disagree with your opinion on affirmative action.
There is a disgusting gap between the amount of white/asian students
and latinos, blacks and native americans. </p>

<p>If we want to lessen that gap affirmative action is one way, it is a historically white system and these programs are needed if we are to change and allow minorities upward mobility. </p>

<p>Merits alone are not enough, we need diversity in the University system and perhaps minorities don’t do as well as the whites or asians its because they struggle with different problems, that you may not understand. </p>

<p>I however agree with you that students shouldn’t just get a free pass. They should have at least the minimum requirements to get into the UC system.</p>

<p>I think the UC system would benefit to have a bigger native american population on campus, or a black population or a latino population.</p>

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<p>Silly-ness! Why can’t we just get in based on merit alone? Not race? Smart (and dumb!) people come from all races and backgrounds.</p>

<p>I do agree that we need diversity (that’s just a given in this day and age) but why does being a particular color or background matter in the admission process at all? Are white people being admitted over smarter minorities? If so, I see that injustice, but is that what’s happening?</p>

<p>@ janethedoe- totally agreed that the UCs would benefit from diversity, but what did you mean by:</p>

<p>“Merits alone are not enough, we need diversity in the University system and perhaps minorities don’t do as well as the whites or asians its because they struggle with different problems, that you may not understand.”</p>

<p>Like what problems? I really don’t understand- that’s why I’m asking. I’m not trying to be flippant at all. Thanks for posting, Movingunit.</p>

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<p>The current system already gives plenty of points to students who have struggles that we may not understand. Significant points are given to students with a hard background, students from disadvantages schools, students from disadvantaged parts of California, students from parents who did not go to college, students who are part of programs for disadvantaged students, and students who are ELC in crappy school districts.</p>

<p>What more is there to do? So much is already handed to minority students (who are not all disadvantaged by the way). We might as well just reinstate quotas and just accept all minority students that apply regardless of the intelligence (or lack thereof) they will bring to UC.</p>

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<p>Morally, I really don’t believe that we should literally force diversity into our UC system. Although I would LOVE to see such a diverse student body, I just don’t believe that there is an actual way to properly accommodate such wishes. </p>

<p>There is a lot to be said for a student who has overcome the odds or from poverty and made it to the UC system, but can we really place policies to give this student an extra-advantage? I mean, when you apply to the UCs, can’t you already talk about hardships in your application? In turn, doesn’t these hardships calculate a few extra points when deciding to admit students or not? Isn’t this process more accommodating as it doesn’t restrict strictly on race (there are poor whites, asians, etc). Even disregarding one’s wealth, can’t you still voice your minority status in this section?</p>

<p>Already at a few of the UC’s (saw today at UCSC and friend saw at UCSD), Black Student Unions have been protesting about these issues and I really think their demands are a little too excessive. Requiring all students to take one course in African American studies? Requiring all the UCs to admit more African Americans? Require the funding of several programs to help empower/educate African American students? I really am for the empowerment of minorities, but this is still too much to ask for in the broad scheme of things.</p>

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<p>Midnight- you stated exactly how I feel… However, I also feel so under-educated about the issue. I have a hard time trying to debate about something I haven’t studied, so I’ll probably just watch this thread and ask lots of questions…</p>

<p>… Hey, it beats doing nothing while waiting for transfer decisions…</p>

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<p>kernalsanders,</p>

<p>Diversity means not only diverse in skin color but economic and social backgrounds. Many of the students who would benefit from Affirmative Action are first generation Americans, First to Attend College, and people who come from Single Family Homes.</p>

<p>These issues make being able to achieve high merits exceedingly hard, those that have more on there plate with concerns of how to pay the rent on top of how to pay for there books have stress that effects their preformance. Perhaps they come from a home where there is excessive drug use or alcohol abuse and they would like to achieve something more but have no support.
These issues are specific to minorities and they may need a helping hand in order to achieve upward mobility.
Maybe they are not able to achieve a 4.0, a 3.7 or a 3.5 gpa.
Perhaps they meet only the minimum requirements or the highest competitive gpa they would ever receive is a 2.8 due to their circumstances. For the UC system it a 2.4 gpa is minimuim and a 2.8 gpa is considered “competitive”</p>

<p>Like i said, i don’t agree that Affirmative Action should mean a free pass, but coming from a minority background in the U.S. often comes with social and economic problems and in order for more equality more minorities who have the minimum requirements should be considered. </p>

<p>Affirmative Action would help the UC system choose students with more diverse backgrounds and take their situations into consideration.</p>

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<p>@ Movingunit AA is a broad subject that deals with a lot more than access to higher education. Interestingly enough the issue of AA in school admissions has pretty much framed the debate on the subject for most citizens. I don’t believe you would disagree with AA in all its applications so your opinion that it needs to be “done away with” is probably somewhat misinformed. Now on the subject of AA in higher education, I do not agree with it as it has been traditionally enforced in the past. I believe true AA would be to address directly the factors that cause certain minority groups to “underperform” on average in education (K-12). These are the issues that need to be proactively addressed. </p>

<p>ps this “challenge” is a PR stunt to draw attention to their cause. The probability of prop. 209 being overturned is little to none, so everyone refrain from getting their panties up in a bunch. If you must, look up past threads, CC’s been there and done that. I recall finding an extremely interesting thread on the subject on one of the Ivy leagues CC pages. It was much more fulfilling than the: “It’s whities fault!” “No they’re just lazy and don’t try!” you tend to find on this thread.</p>

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<p>A great perspective on true diversity, Janethedoe! But these problems are in no way unique or specific to minority groups… wait- when you say minority, do you mean racial minority? I’ve just never heard the term used in the connotation of “economic” or “social” minority… generally, people mean racial. What is the context you meant?</p>

<p>My skin is so white that I’m practically clear… but I’m from a single-parent home (as are many nowadays). Do you think Affirmative Action could be set up in a way that benefits all races? I like the idea of Affirmative Action that distinguishes by economic and social class (if such a thing can truly be measured), but I don’t feel that race should play a part in it. Do you think race should have a role in it? If so, what kind of role?</p>

<p>However, I also like the idea of all people serving in the military or a government function for 2 years, and the government, in turn, assisting in education payments, housing, tuition, etc. It’s been working out very well for me for the last 2 years. :)</p>

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<p>I gotta side with some middle area between MidnightGolfer and janethedoe. Just read an article in class about this today</p>

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<p>^ I believe that would be my road. lol</p>

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<p>Complicated issues usually bring about safe “vanilla” opinions, but it’s much better than the racial slurs being thrown back and forth!</p>

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<p>AA=discrimination against Caucasians and Asians (in this case). </p>

<p>AA does not really solve anything. </p>

<p>I know different types of black people (at my school). Some drive Mercedes and wear hundred dollar shoes and clothes or are very intelligent and poor, and then black people who are the utmost ■■■■■■■■ (you know the ones)- loud music, talk loud in the library, and scream like they are deaf. Anyways, it does not matter about the race as much. Should the black girl I know whose family is wealthier than mine, who drives a Mercedes, and whose parent’s are doctors (true story) have a better chance of getting in because she has more melanin in her skin than me? </p>

<p>I draw my own race card on that one. ACLU!!!</p>

<p>In short, AA is just a lazy, wrong, and inefficient way of redistributing “power” and giving reparations for past wrongdoings. Life is more complicated than that. You have to look over the whole picture.</p>

<p>And please stop listening to brain-dead liberals (mostly the ones who smoke weed everyday and wear peace shirts and think they are “elite”) and obvious PR propaganda from companies trying to look good for their investors.</p>

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<p>kernlsanders, when I say diversity I take into account race, social and economic diversity. I have take a few sociology classes, the intro course and American Social Problems and no the issues that I mentioned are not unique or specific to minorities but they are more common. Statistically in America minorities have more of a tendency to suffer from these problems, and according to what I learned being a minority in America is a definite factor in the high numbers shown in statistics. </p>

<p>I would like Affirmative Action to benefit all races including whites with economic and social issues but I believe that racial minority groups are extremely underrepprestented in the UC system.</p>

<p>The role race should play a part in is the decisive role, the UC should have goals to raise the quota on Blacks, Latinos and Native Americans because when you look at the numbers of the population at the UC system they are really upsetting. </p>

<p>If you are interested maybe you can take a few sociology courses, its really eye opening and interesting and you can get a better view.</p>

<p>About all people serving in the military and then getting money for tuition, i like that it is an optional thing…lol…</p>

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<p>I think there should be a distinction between the different types of affirmative action. For what I know, this article is strictly about diversity on a racial level. Of course data can prove that certain races TEND to have a particular economic status, but I actually don’t think that it is pertinent in this case (strange because it’s usually the basis of most AA policies). </p>

<p>If the UCs want to gain a more culturally diverse student body, is it really fair to give entitlement by color? I would actually agree with a very basic program that would give economically-challenged students a better chance in the UC system, but this isn’t the case here. This is strictly, “We need to cut down a little bit on the Asians/Caucasian numbers and let in others to give a culturally rounded campus.” </p>

<p>Would I really want to give admission to a student with a 3.9 who is native american over a student who has a 4.0 (with all else being equal). I already see colleges admit students with lower GPAs because they have something to OFFER the campus. A student who has founded his own multi-million dollar online business (only has a 3.5) can trump a student with a 3.8, based solely on their experience. If we are admitting students based on race, are we supposed to figure just because they listed they were -insert race here-, then they will be some sort of ambassador to the campus?</p>

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<p>One of the attorneys on the plaintiff side was on the radio last week, she said some interesting stuff. I am curious to see if anyone has any thoughts on this. </p>

<p>Basically she said if you take a multicultural group of students and you give them all the same test in 2 different situations you see why they are underrepresented.</p>

<p>She said in the first situation they told all the students, this is just a test to measure the school, you wont get graded and your name wont be connected to it. Students of all races took the test and they all got similar scores.</p>

<p>She then said when the second situation was done, the students were told “the purpose of this test is to measure your intelligence.” According to the attorney, as soon as the Black and Hispanic students hear those words, a mental barrier automatically goes up in their brain. The barrier is caused by the racist culture of America which causes them to develop this mental block surrounding their intelligence. On this test the white students scored significantly higher, but it was the same test as situation 1.</p>

<p>This was her response to a “but the test scores are lower” argument. I don’t know if i agree with her 100% but it was nice to hear an actual argument on the issue.</p>

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<p>The problem with that example adam is the fact that they couldn’t have used the same test subjects and the difficulty of the two test are factors which aren’t accounted for. </p>

<p>Did they also make the test easier for white people on the 2nd test and easier for black on the on 1st test? there just alot of factors that are unknown about experiments like that.</p>

<p>also </p>

<p>[Colleges</a> Take Action to Boost Minority Grad Rates - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2010/02/04/colleges-take-action-to-boost-minority-grad-rates.html]Colleges”>http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2010/02/04/colleges-take-action-to-boost-minority-grad-rates.html)</p>

<p>once they get in since alot aren’t prepared for that type for rigor they struggle</p>

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<p>Why can’t they put in place some sort of socioeconomic AA? I mean if what we’re trying to do is bring more racial diversity to colleges, more first-gens, more ESL speakers etc. Since URMs are disproportionately overrepresented in low-income groups, socioeconomic AA is more fair and will consequently provide more racial diversity ** and ** socioeconomic diversity.</p>

<p>This system will be fairer because low-income whites/asians will be helped by this process while high-income URMs won’t. I don’t think they should benefit from the current AA system. They’ve had the same opportunities other races in the same income bracket have. </p>

<p>And I don’t quite think we should heed the racial stereotypes. What about gender stereotypes? There was another study that said females performed worse on the math part of the SAT because of the same reason. Do they need AA? No. </p>

<p>Socioeconomic AA is the way to go. I don’t normally post on AA because I’m mostly on the fence about it, but to me, it seems like the solution.</p>

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<p>@Peter86</p>

<p>I don’t know.The attorney sounded out of her mind and like had no idea what she was talking about. </p>

<p>I don’t trust experiments or studies because their outcome is decided before they are conducted.</p>

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<p>^ Peter I’m pretty sure her statements were based on a well known and repeated Stanford study. The original study was based on the GRE. In the first test sample the students were simply told to take it and it had no significance whatsoever, in the second test sample they informed them that it was an example of the GRE. In this Stanford study, and in every university that has repeated it, the races always test on the same level in the first sample group. But in the second sample group minorities, especially African Americans, test significantly lower. This phenomenon is known as “stereotype threat.” Even though the students attend the same university and would otherwise perform on the same level, when they become aware that it is the GRE, their scores slide. Stereotype threat is when minorities play into the stereotypes that society has placed upon them. In this case even highly educated African Americans are aware of the stereotype: “Blacks don’t do well on standardized tests” and it affects their score when otherwise they would have performed on the same level as their peers of European and Asian descent. For some of you law/history buffs you would know that this was one of if not the primary reasons the US Supreme Court declared segregation in schools unconstitutional in Brown vs. The Board of Education, due to the psychological effect segregation had on African American children (just a little known fact when people bring up this case). As for your questions about the validity of the study I am not sure if you have taken a class on statistical research or research methods but I assure you these issues are accounted for in university studies. </p>

<p>Just passing on the info, you may draw your on conclusions.</p>