@CaliMex No idea if they did anything wrong or not. Haven’t followed it. My general thinking is that every school has people who are good, bad, ambitious, ethical, unethical and all the rest. One school hasn’t cornered the market on what is good and just. And no school has a whole group of negativity either. You get all kinds at all places.
I like the idea that every board is made up of a broad segment of society. That isn’t the case at every school. At others, it’s great. Some schools have obviously cultivated alumni/ae to be on the board. Some have great stories of the individual progress of their members. Others not so much. I do like to look at the board or meet someone. Tells me something about what the school is about.
The motto is one thing, what transpires is another. One hopes as a parent and student that they mirror each other. Doesn’t always happen but that’s the goal.
@CaliMex - you know an impressive amount of detailed information about Thacher for a mom of a rising sophomore. I have a rising sophomore at Cate, live a similar distance from Cate as you do from Thacher, am likewise a working parent, and like you am a relentless researcher. I read everything I can find about Cate, and seek out staff when I have a question (small or large). You are on a whole other level than me knowledge-wise about your daughter’s school. Much props.
I haven’t had an opportunity to get to know trustees, although admittedly there are local gatherings I have missed. I haven’t had the opportunity to get to know the college counseling staff beyond surface level - because they don’t do much with Freshmen, let alone their parents. You know Thacher yield info, which is highly protected in most schools. What are you doing that I am not, that you have such access to people/information?
How often does Thacher communicate with parents, and how? I guess I am jealous. Cate is very communicative and transparent, but if all Thacher parents are as knowledgeable as you are, I am curious how Thacher achieves that.
Thacher sure is lucky to have you on CC advocating for it.
Not sure how to respond to your message, @CateCAParent . Thank you?
Most of what I know about Thacher I learned from @ThacherParent, my kid, or alumni (I happen to know several).
Here’s an example of trasparency in action: The judicial council that hears disciplinary cases is mostly made up of students and after every deliberation they go dorm to dorm to explain the case and the rationale behind their decision and to answer any questions their fellow students might have. I have no idea how that sort of thing works at other schools, but I was blown away by the leadership role students play and the sheer transparency of the process.
Interesting – the Cate disciplinary council (sounds like the equivalent of Thacher’s judicial council) presents significant determinations at assembly. So the same, but different. I am not sure how I feel about it, but I get the point. Discipline and behavior standards are a community thing, and dealing with it matter of factly takes it out of the rumor mill that can exist in a small school. Important to note - the parents don’t get info on the run of the mill discipline issues.
Back to the culture question – how/how often do various schools communicate with parents? Cate does a ridiculous amount of communiCATEing. A weekly email to parents, plus additional ones for specific issues, additional ones from the Headmaster every few weeks. Magazines. Gobs of photos on the website. Kid-specific communications from the health center, advisor, and others, on an as-needed basis.
We get detailed reports in the middle and end of each trimester – including info from dorm heads and coaches. We get/send texts with the advisor all the time. I swear I know far more about kiddo’s life now than I did when kiddo was at home.
I’m quite a researcher myself as well and and trying to learn as much as I can about boarding schools, California ones in particular. My initial reaction to Thacher was that it had a strong sense of community. At times, I’ll admit that I found the messaging about the honor code and the values to come across to me like a carefully crafted message and seemed like a marketing campaign. A cohesive community with strong values is what many parents expect or hope for as they consider sending their kids off to boarding school. Most schools do have strict honor codes but Thacher is among the best at emphasizing it–that’s just my impression based on the materials/brochures I’ve seen of theirs compared to other schools. Kudos to Thacher for identifying that community values matter a lot to many parents. If anything, I appreciate that the school makes this an important highlight of their school. I agree with the comment from @Happytimes2001, “The motto is one thing, what transpires is another.” Based on what you’ve shared, @CaliMex, you seem to be very satisfied with your child’s experience with the school and it’s helpful to get your perspective. Glad to hear your experience has been a positive one.
For me, I still think there’s a bit of mystery surrounding Thacher Trustee Doug Hodge’s involvement in the college scandal. He was also a Thacher parent and it’s not fully clear whether a Thacher student was involved. As far as I know, Thacher hasn’t made a public statement that says unequivocally that no Thacher student was involved in the scandal. I would think that would be the first thing they would state clearly if that was the case–just reading between the lines here. Sometimes it’s what not said that’s more than what is said. But I could be wrong about this so please correct me if I am. Also Hodge’s case has yet to be fully played out in the judicial system, so there will likely be more details forthcoming in the future. Also, the media coverage has been so heavily focused of the two celebrities involved, Felicity Huffman and Lori LoughIin, so much so that the incident with Hodge has had much less media coverage in comparison and less is known about that case. I think it’s fair for parents interested in Thacher to want to scrutinize this incident a bit more, or to be interested in knowing more details, especially for those considering sending a child to school there. If a Thacher student is involved, I think that’s a detail that prospective families/students might like to have.
All boarding schools are concerned about image and messaging, for obvious reasons. Thacher seems like a well-oiled, savvy marketing machine. Whether a consumer (ahem parent) sees the marketing as a plus or a minus is a personal values thing.
With all the talk of trustees, I looked at Cate’s trustee page v Thacher’s. Cate has bios for its trustees, Thacher doesn’t. Cate is all alums and parents. Can’t tell with Thacher’s page. Maybe that is normal for boarding schools, but that doesn’t seem to toe the Thacher transparency line.
Thacher probably had nothing to do with Hodge/Singer. But trying to wipe clean the internet of any connection is not transparency, either. I like how Choate handled its controversy: A public letter on the website, along with an action plan and updates. That’s class. Every school has controversy. It is how the school handles it that sets them apart. If/when Cate has a controversy, I hope it handles it more like Choate.
Even though I find their marketing off putting (eg multiple highly produced videos, and a home page that screams out its yield, for starters), I don’t want to come across as Thacher bashing. It is a great place for the right kids.
Culture is everything to Thacher. The honor code is practiced daily, not some BS marketing fodder. See it for yourself. Talk to the kids. Meet the teachers. Show up at a game. Watch a presentation. Read what the kids write about the School. Do whatever scripted or unscripted thing you can think of to put your mind at ease. Thacher’s Honor Code was the reason that we chose to send our son. These many years later, with the results of his life coming in, we remain thrilled with our decision. I mean, what good is a great education if it’s uncoupled from Honor, Fairness, Kindness and Truth? One other thing about Thacher, it sees itself as a work in progress. It always has and I absolutely love this orientation. Not every moment in the School’s history will be shining, not every kid, or Trustee for that matter, will be a good choice or produce a good outcome. Life happens, even at the best boarding school on the planet ;). And yes, the School is wickedly transparent about its results and its process.
@8minutemile
My husband felt the same way about Thacher and their messaging. He left wondering if that was all they had to “offer”. I liked Thacher a lot and was more on board than him. We left with our kid really liking it but then came Cate the next day and it was all over. Cate made her giddy. We’ve tried several times to have her put into words what about Cate made her instantly know it was the one but she can’t.
I at first leaned towards Thacher for a few reasons but after revisiting Cate I realized that the kid was right and it was the right school for her.
It will be fun to go on the journey with you this school year. It is filled with ups and downs but overall a educational ride. Four weeks from now we are hopping on a plane to drop off our kid…so many emotions!!!
@CateCAParent Really good points. Every BS school has pretty slick marketing to my 20 Th Century eyes. When we were looking albeit not at Thacher, we found many thick and wonderful brochures, plush couches and well articulated videos and web pages. But I am wary of someone marketing to me so we looked at all schools carefully. Some fell off the list.
Each and every school has had it’s demons. Some were benign and some were glaring. The best thing is to find someone whose kids attend a school that is pragmatic and willing to honestly tell you/not sell you on what their experience has been like. We know many in BS and have heard many stories that never will make it to the web page.
As a parent, I think you have to weigh what is said and what is done. And you have to know your child. What makes your kid tick. Once you find a couple of schools that you like, then you can get a good fit.
Every school has a culture —and to the parents and students who go there it’s great. But not every culture fits every family.
A final comment. This thread has the whiff of shading Thacher, which is peculiar coming from an existing or prospective Cate parent. The bond between the schools is generationally strong, starting with Curtis Cate who, when he came West, joined Thacher as a history teacher for the year prior to starting Cate in Santa Barbara. Since then, while a great school rivalry has existed, each institution has always been there for the other. That’s something of which many people, including me, are proud. That being said, applicant children and parents definitely self-select after their visits. For example, we lived on the East Coast and my kids attended a great private day school called the Episcopal Academy in Merion, PA (now in Newtown Square). To us, Cate felt like a west coast version of Episcopal. My son (and we) were looking for something qualitatively different, which we found at Thacher. Someone else might have the opposite reaction. I have brought this up before because it’s a great third party data point, and I wish that they would publish their results, but the Independent School Gender Project takes a ton of measurements of school health at the following institutions. Thacher is a top performer. If you ask the admission’s head or the school head at any of the participant schools, they would probably talk you through the bi-annual survey results. They are revealing and valuable, but can’t be published publicly. Bottom line, Cate is a fantastic school and a great option for the right kid. Thacher is the same. Here are the ISGP participants: Baylor School
Cate School
Colorado Academy
Deerfield Academy
Grace Church School
Groton School
Hawaii Preparatory Academy
Hawken School
Hopkins School
The Hotchkiss School
Kase Leadership Method
Kent School
Lawrence Academy
Milton Academy
Oregon Episcopal School
Phillips Academy - Andover
Pomfret School
St. Paul’s School
St. Stephen’s Episcopal School
The Taft School
The Thacher School
The Webb Schools
@ThacherParent - sorry to offend. I of course value the friendship and good-natured rivalry between Cate and Thacher (I have posted about how much I appreciated it in how they responded to the fire), and believe Thacher does a great job educating the whole child. I don’t think any of the comments say anything different.
At most, I read the comments as an observation about administrative choices about marketing and p.r., and that perhaps there is a mismatch between the school’s recent choices in those regards and their mission. For me, it comes from a place of respect and confusion to give that honest opinion. I also wonder if it is a recent departure from historically how the school handles things. @ThacherParent , is that a shift you or your son have perceived?
@CateCAParent I really don’t know what you’re talking about re: “mismatch” of anything, “shift” of anything. The school has never been stronger or healthier than it is right now. Your comments/question don’t make sense to me.
I’ll take that as a no then.
Look, I have zero desire to throw shade at Thacher, or belabor the issue. No one disputes Thacher is a great school, or that your son has benefited greatly from it. Your, and @CalMex’s, responses seem strangely defensive to me.
I wouldn’t even think about Thacher’s reputation, bother to research Thacher’s website, or read recent reviews by current students on various other websites (which should always be taken with a grain of salt as everyone here should know), but for recent excessive pro-Thacher posts here. I watched the slick marketing video CaliMex blasted on 4(!) threads simultaneously. I don’t think Thacher needs to do that kind of thing. Nor does it need to tamp down on the Singer thing. There are better ways.
No school is perfect. Yet it comes across as Thacher trying too hard to convince people it is. While I have read fancy mailings and websites from many schools, my observation is that Thacher takes marketing to another level. Pride is one thing, but that is not how it comes across to me. It comes across as aggressive and calculated. I would think Thacher would want that feedback. My status as a Cate parent is relevant only in so far as I am presumably a target audience as a bs parent generally. I have one kid in bs, who Thacher wasn’t a fit for, and have no vested interest in Thacher’s admissions numbers. So honestly, I don’t care if Thacher hears me or not.
If saying any of that out loud counts as shade, then I will own being a tree.
It sounds like @CaliMex 's enthusiasm for Thacher has really rubbed you the wrong way. I don’t think the school’s videos are particularly remarkable. There are nine of them right now, and most tend to be shorter, student focused responses. I think of them as basic and professional, which is what I would expect to see on any good Boarding School’s website.
Words matter, as we are told ad nauseam in today’s political climate. Your choice of words, like “marketing machine, strangely defensive, aggressive, calculated, slick, ‘trying too hard,’” make it clear to me that this thread is something other than well meaning, or maybe well-meaning with something else mixed in. The Doug Hodge thing is a good example. It’s been my experience that you can never know 100% of someone else. An individual can do 98% good works and still have a dark 2%. It could be a friend, your spouse, a Trustee – it makes no difference. Mr. Hodge’s behavior was a surprise to all of us, but there is not a larger meaning or some kind of salacious mystery still to be solved. It’s infinitely more pedestrian (although no less disappointing.) Nor do I feel like the School is “tamping” down anything. On a related note, somebody else dinged Thacher for lack of transparency on its website because it only lists the Trustees’ names, not their bios. I think it’s a good suggestion to add bios and I’ll make it.
All in all, I find this thread disappointing. I’ve been on CC for 11 years and this is the first instance of which I’m aware when someone associated with Cate or Thacher took a swing at the other, however well veiled. Cate is a great school. I truly have only positive sentiments. They were wonderful to Thacher during the fires and I am confident that if there were a coastal event, the favor would be immediately returned.
Thacher is not for everyone. How many kids get excited about a school that makes them get up at dawn to shovel horse manure? Or that forces the entire community to start and end each school year with week-long camping trips?
There’s NO WAY I would have chosen Thacher for myself, lol. I’m too lazy and like my creature comforts. But those experiences really do bond the kids to each other in a very unique way and create a very tightly-knit community, especially since camping is all about putting the well-being and comfort of the group ahead of one’s own. (We all know that is something that doesn’t always come naturally to teens). It makes for a very distinct culture.
Other schools have equally strong academics. And every school has its own sense of culture and community. But I wouldn’t underestimate the impact of the horse and outdoor programs on Thacher’s community and culture. It definitely makes the school feel different from others.
No school is perfect and neither is Thacher. But we are quite comfortable with the level of communication and transparency. We heard from the head of school very early on in the Varsity Blues case. The school has not been implicated in any way. (It is outrageous to draw a parallel to the sex abuse that happened at Choate to students in their care, by teachers hired by the school. ) In the case of Varsity Blues, it is the universities that were in the wrong, not the high schools attended by the students or the non-profits or schools on whose boards some of the players served. With rare exception, the students’ high schools were completely in the dark.
@ThacherParent - Sorry you interpreted my words has some sort of veiled attack. I can say “Thacher is great” only so many times. I have read your posts over the years, and you are a thoughtful, measured person. So your reaction concerns me.
If my comment about perceived overly-enthusiastic marketing crosses a line into improper critique, now I know. But yes, posting the video 4 times struck a chord with me. I have never seen a marketing video posted here that I can recall (could be wrong), other than several previous ones by CaliMex, and I certainly haven’t seen one posted simultaneously on 4 threads at once. She is a great advocate for a great school. Nothing wrong with that. But it is uncommon enough behavior for any reader to wonder why once wasn’t enough. I have seen other posters get called out for less.
This is not a Cate v Thacher thing. Of course Cate, and Cate families (myself included), support Thacher. Why assume my observation about marketing (of all things) equals a veiled attack on the school itself? Goodness gracious. All I said was that the marketing doesn’t match the school’s ethos. The ethos is the important part, not the marketing.
Done here.
Seems like the between the lines message is, don’t criticize my school esp. if you are from a friendly school. And on the other hand, please don’t excessive post marketing materials and only pro- info on your kids school ad nauseum. But maybe I’m reading it wrong.
We never looked at any of the schools mentioned so I really have no opinion on the schools. I hope you all find the information that you are looking for, whether you/your kid is applying or whether your child is a Senior. The CC forum is great for opening dialogue. It’s great to point out various things about schools and discuss it. If people have questions, I have found that personally reaching out is a great way to gather even more info.
@CateParent If what bugged you was my posting a link to a video on four different threads, then don’t blame the school, blame me. Current boarding school parents like you were NOT the intended audience, BTW. I just wanted to make the video easy to find for future years’ crops of potential boarding school applicants and their families. I only posted it on threads that I thought those considering CA boarding schools might be likely to land on.
Those just starting their BS research do not spend as much time here as you and I seem to … and even if they’ve visited the Thacher website, they might not have seen this particular video. For families who live far away or who might not be able to travel to Ojai to visit the school, I thought the video was particularly good at capturing the feeling and culture of the place.
If you had posted a dozen links to a Cate video that captured what makes Cate special or different, I wouldn’t be irked at all… not sure why it bothered you that much.
I am all for increasing awareness of all boarding schools outside New England, especially California. Kids and families will end up at the school that fits them best.
@Happytimes2001 I have no problem with people criticizing Thacher. It is FAR from perfect. But criticizing them for emphasizing their culture & community in their marketing, blaming THEM for MY posting videos on multiple threads, or comparing the Choate sex scandal to having a board member implicated in Varsity Blues seemed, well, odd and meanspirited.
Want to know what I’d change about Thacher if I could? All you have to do is ask.
@calimex Sorry but I never compared Thacher to any Choate sex scandal. You may have inferred that incorrectly as I may have been commenting on a thread. But as you know, threads jump around. I have no opinion on Thatcher or Choate’s dilemna’s, or really what has happened at any school. Nor, did I criticize Thacher. Perhaps you should go back and re-read the post.
I was only citing as I often do and will, that no school is perfect and applicants need to realize that schools all market to potential students. Some parents seem to buy the Kool Aid that everything is as it seems and others take it with a grain of salt. Hey, we can all chose what we believe to be true. I rarely would even watch a video of anything much less believe it to be a true representation. I saw one video of a school my kid applied to during the process. It looked nothing like the campus. But it was. Kudos to the marketing team.
@Happytimes2001 You’re right. It was someone else who implied that Thacher should have handled this situation the way Choate handled its sex abuse scandal, as if the situations were remotely similar. Best practice in crisis PR is to take responsibility for your actions, show remorse, and demonstrate that you will do better in the future. Not sure what “actions” Thacher should be taking responsibility for in this case. They had nothing to do with the Varsity Blues scandal. Yale, Georgetown, and USC, on the other hand…
Thacher emphasizes community and culture in everything it does, not just its marketing materials. If one tires of hearing “Honor, Fairness, Kindness, and Truth” ten times a day (or is allergic to manual labor, horse manure, or camping), it is probably not the right “fit”.