<p>Please, what would you say some of the differences are between the engineering programs at these CA schools: UCLA, UCB, UCSD, UCD and USC?</p>
<p>It's so hard to tell from slick brochures and a general campus tour. I get how CalPoly is different: best for kids sure of their major and wanting lots of hands-on training. But the others?</p>
<p>I don't mean differences in ranking or admission selectivity; I mean qualitative program differences such as more/less theoretical, unique internships or research ops for undergrads, special equipment, extra tutoring, culture, other etc. </p>
<p>Assume you could get into any of them and you like non-academic features of the schools equally, what are the engneering program features that make/made you choose one over the other? Thanks.</p>
<p>My S was accepted to the engineering program at all of the schools you listed, and we personally visited USC, UCLA and UCB. USC will have a very informative open house for HS seniors in October or November, which you should plan on attending if at all possible. UCLA's open house in April was for admitted students - lots of handouts, info sessions, panel discussions and opportunities to meet with students, recent graduates, faculty and administrators. Again, very helpful. What was interesting about UCLA is that students are encouraged to sample various engineering disciplines and to change majors if they want, and if it takes 5 years (or more) to graduate, so be it. The retention rate for the College of Engineering is around 65%, as I recall, so there is a fair amount of attrition into the College of Letters & Science at UCLA. Overall, I was really impressed with UCLA's candor and openness and how much effort was made to make admittees feel welcome and to help them arrive at an informed decision. </p>
<p>UCSD has the "college" system, where in addition to the requirements for an engineering major, students have to complete the core requirements for their college. On the application you will be asked to to rank your choice of colleges, so look at the requirements for each college as well as your intended engineering major carefully; with many colleges, it is impossible to complete the required coursework within 4 years without summer school. For this reason, S decided not to visit UCSD and crossed it off his list. </p>
<p>Since UCD was too remote for S's liking, that left UCB. UCB makes it difficult for students to change majors (just the opposite of UCLA), mostly because UCB needs to maximize resources by getting students through in 4 years to make room for the incoming class; in fact, a student may be dismissed for not making satisfactory progress toward a degree. This policy is even expressed on their website. Their open house (not tailored to admitted students) was on April 22nd, very late in the month to be making a decision. To their credit, the 4 year retention rate at UCB Engineering is 80% (70% within the original major and 10% into another engineering major); with a 5% failure rate, and 12% or so transferring into Letters/Science or another UCB college. UCB is a fine school with the #2 or 3 ranked engineering program in the country, but as much as he loved UCB, he was not completely ready to commit to a major, let alone engineering. UCLA was a much better fit for him academically, but it is only 6 miles away from home and therefore geographically undesirable for him. He will enroll at Cornell as an undecided engineering major.</p>
<p>My first D decided on engineering at UCSD (entering 4th year) and the second D on engineering (both computer science) at UCLA (will start in fall). The programs at UCSD and UCLA look very similar and they're ranked right next to each other. Neither of them were interested in UCB but it was due mostly because of the location (too far from home) and its urban atmosphere (it feels more urban than UCLA and much more so than UCSD). They also weren't interested in UCD because of its location mostly and somewhat because it's ranked lower than UCLA/UCSD/UCB (but not significantly). They didn't consider out of state.</p>
<p>My first D is happy enough at UCSD but it's a rigorous program and I'm expecting the same at UCLA. The attrition rate at UCSD seems to be high and possibly higher than UCLA's depending on how they play the numbers and how honest their responses were. Note - in the engineering info session at UCLA this year I was the one who asked about the attrition rate. About a third transfer out of engineering but most stay at UCLA. The same is true with UCSD - many transfer out of engineering but will stay at the University in some other major. </p>
<p>You might want to post this question to flopsy if you're more interested in UCLA (on the 'ask flopsy' forum).</p>
<p>Thanks poomix and ...dad (btw happy father's day). Besides general criteria like location and overall rankings, the main difference I'm hearing seems to be how hard it is to change majors and graduate in 4 years, yes? The quality of the programs (professors, equipment, elective offerings, major-related ECs etc) are comparable?</p>
<p>For UCLA and UCSD, it's easy to switch from engineering to a non-engineering major but it's not so easy to go the other direction. Both of these schools do a second 'cut' on admissions into engineering - i.e. the admissions requirements are stricter. At UCLA, they indicated it'd be reasonable to switch to another engineering major if you're already in the engineering school. One thing to remember is that with engineering, one starts to take courses specific to their major right away since they have a lot to pack in within 4 years. This means that if you go a couple of years and then want to switch to another engineering major, it becomes less practical. </p>
<p>In another year I'll be able to do a better comparison of Computer Science programs between UCLA and UCSD.</p>
<p>Hiker - Although UCB ranks higher than UCLA and UCSD, that was never significant in S's decision as to which UC was his top choice; we considered the quality of programs to be comparable enough such that other factors should come into play, such as curriculum, fit, location, campus life, etc. Part of his problem with UCSD is that he was accepted to Revelle College - stupid me, I told him that Revelle was the most prestigious but didn't think of suggesting that he look into each college's core requirements before ranking his college choices. Revelle in particular has a very tough core, and UCSD engineering students in general have a heavier liberal arts course load than UCB or UCLA. All of the major and core requirements can be found on the websites; just remember to check out the university and college-wide core requirements as well as those for the major. UCSD is often thought of as academically much tougher than UCLA or UCB, and after comparing UCSD's curriculum with UCB and UCLA, you might agree.</p>
<p>A word about the engineering curriculum - ABET is the organization that gives university engineering programs their accreditation, and ABET prescribes how many courses of math, chem, physics, engineering, etc. students must take in order to graduate. So the universities don't have as much flexibility as one might think in designing their curriculum.</p>
<p>ucsd-ucla-dad is correct in that any college will tell you that it is much easier to switch out of than into engineering so even if, like my S, you are not 100% certain that you will end up an engineer, you should apply to engineering. You will be able to start off with your basic math/science courses right away and if you should decide to switch, those courses will most likely satisfy some of the core requirements for the school/college you switch into, so you will not lose too much ground.</p>
<p>Great info, thanks. Good idea to check the college req'ts at UCSD. We'd heard about Revelle being well-respected but (and?) tough. Maybe better for non-engineering major or pp who like summer school.;)</p>
<p>All 3 of your students must have been really good candidates to get into all those engineering programs. Congratulations. Do you mind sharing anything about their application?</p>
<p>I think my S will be a pretty good one too, but who knows these days? GPA 4.2'ish (haven't done a precise UC calculation yet), Math 2C 800, Physics 760, first round Sat1 2140 (retook in June but no score yet). Junior year 3 AP/Honors. Senior year 4-5. ECs that make him very happy but pretty regular (2 varsity sports, summer job, new girlfriend :) ...)</p>
<p>My D at UCSD is in Muir. She chose Muir because it had the fewest and most flexible GE requirements (Warren is similar) which works best with the engineering workload. After the first couple of years the college choice becomes less significant.</p>
<p>Son's UC GPA was around 4.3. Junior year 4 AP/Honors, senior year 4 APs. Took 2 AP science classes (Physics B and Chem) junior year and 2 AP math classes (Calc BC and Statistics) senior year, which helped his strength of program immensely. Best SAT I in one sitting was 750CR/720M/620W (bleah). SAT IIs were 780 in Math IIC and 740 in Physics. ECs were so-so: 3 varsity sports, summer community service. Good luck to your son - he should be a strong candidate for all 5 schools.</p>
<p>I teach at Cal Poly, so I have a slight bias. But many of the engineering students there tell me that their engineering-major friends at the UC's are jealous of the hands-on learning experience they're getting at Poly.</p>
<p>My son will be entering as an undeclared engineering student at USC. Many/most of their engineering students are able to graduate in 4 years without summer school. If you do an internship, it may take you an extra semester, but give you practical experience (a friend's son is going to be graduating after 4 1/2 years because he did an internship in NY, which he enjoyed).
At USC, the 1st semester the only course specific to engineering you take is intro to engineering. 2nd semester, you take physics for engineers & other courses as well. You can transfer out of engineering but it gets more to transfer in & graduate in 4 years as the coursework becomes increasingly specifc to engineering.
They have told us that they have very good internship opportunities & career counseling specifically for the engineering department at USC. Interns can earn about $20+/hour for the semester & summer they intern.
There are a LOT of international students at USC, particularly in the engineering school. The engineering school has some programs, money and scholarships just for its students, as well as research opportunities for undergrads. We've heard the "Trojan family" can sometimes help with internships & jobs, but don't have personal experience about this yet.</p>
<p>HImom- Congrats to your son! We toured USC over spring break. We had the hour group session with an engineering school rep so got some good overview info. Sounded great, but at that point my son wanted to sit back and just take it all in. I hope you'll update the forum (parents or engineering major) with your son's specific impressions and experience there!</p>