California public school kid

Thank you all for your kind feedback. If I were to summarize our next steps:

  1. GPA needs a list expansion downwards. The 1500 SAT was on his 1st and only attempt. He’s registered to retake in Oct but don’t know if he will be able to push to 1550+. Question for you folks is - will a strong SAT push (for Oct) help the stats or his unweighted GPA level going to keep a lid no matter what? I will work on expanding the list soon.

  2. Piano proficiency vs how it may help with major flexibility in schools strong at Music and data science / applied math: My son is good but I don’t think he is top-10 conservatory good. He still has 5 months before RD and he could give a push to prep for a strong competition and audition, but again that will come at the expense of his sports data projects, his essays etc. Another tough tradeoff/prioritization decision - is the time better spent on just positioning his music recordings as an arts-supplement for non-music majors or work towards music major level proficiency. His repertoire is strong and can meet USC Thornton’s requirement list and with another 2 months of focused effort can be performance quality (I think). But I haven’t yet done the research on schools that are lenient for BM to BA transitions. Double major’ing will be difficult in conservatory level music schools, I agree - so, it would either be a 4+1 situation or primarily to help in a BM to BA transfer approach.

Thank you so much for all your inputs - super helpful to understand where to target and focus.

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And one more track I forgot to solicit feedback is Gap Year. He has enough ideas and things to do in a gap year with his piano and sports data projects perhaps combine both somewhere in Europe or S America even… I mean he has some leads, to pursue.
Enormous personal growth aside (not entirely risk free - he could slide the other way too), will this approach help him overcome his stats for '24 entry if he wants to aim for some of these reach schools?

Checking for clarity. It sounds like you are trying to figure out a way to make his GPA not stand out as a weaker link in his application. You know….it will be what it will be.

He already has some fine extra activities, and a decent SAT score.

I would be spending time finding colleges where his current stats will provide more likely chances for admission than hoping if he does this that or the other thing, adcoms won’t consider his GPA as much.

He has a chance at some of his current colleges, but in my opinion, it is a very top heavy list. I don’t think some of the schools you listed as likely are actually likely. Like Michigan, for example.

Why aren’t you and he spending time finding really good options for admission.

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A sports data project is not going to move the needle. If the student is really that entrepreneurial, you don’t need these reach schools to eventually have a fantastic career. A gap year is expensive in terms of eventual lost income and potential lost focus because the student already seems very focused. Unsure how music factors into all this.

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With regard to music…my kid contacted all of the music department chairs, orchestra directors (that’s what she wanted to play in college), and applied teachers on her instrument. They were VERY helpful, and answered her questions about opportunities at their schools.

I would suggest your son make these contacts at colleges he is interested in applying to…and he should ask what’s what. They will help!

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This depends in part on how his senior year goes. If he has an absolutely stellar senior year, then having that on the books could be an advantage, showing that he bounced back from the grade dip he had last year. But, he’s not in bad shape as is - I wouldn’t plan on a gap year just in hopes of an incrementally stronger application because of his senior grades. OTOH, if he goes through the application process, has a plan in place, and then wants to defer and take a gap year (and maybe float a few new reach applications if the deferral school permits that), it’s certainly something to consider.

There are also some schools - including USC - that will offer spring admission to some candidates… so your gap plan could come into play if one of those situations were to arise.

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thumper1, you are right that GPA shows what it shows - and we shall spend some time to find better options consistent with all this. It is not a complete list by any stretch… just representative samples. He has started reaching out to music faculty and so far they have been quite helpful.
Neela1 - makes sense. I didn’t mean that he would just be doing a project. Gap year would only make sense if he can go help out a soccer team with his analytics work… like a long internship is what I was thinking. On music, he just likes to play… and in the past couple of years he averaged a lot more practice hours and hence started getting more technically sound and also musical. He is not inclined to pursue it as a career but doesn’t quite want to stop leveling up also. I think we are trying to figure out what to do as well.

A music major is VERY intense. If he is truly thinking of a double major, he should look at the requirements for the majors he is interested in to get a sense of whether that is truly something he wants.

And some of the schools you listed will be extremely competitive for music, especially USC Thornton, so that’s also something to keep in mind.

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Also, I just sent you a DM.

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Unless you talk to some AOs and they tell you how admissions committees look at these things, I would not risk a year of time interning for a soccer team (which are not really that big in the US; this is not a football team) without having sufficient skills in statistics in the first place. But I hope it works out for you. Best of luck.

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Agreed and generally my impression is taking a year and reapplying is generally not a great strategy as you are competing with an entire new graduating class, and your school and recommenders may be more focused on them. Of course there are also success stories in doing so, if the kid does something very impressive. Taking a gap year after being admitted is different

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neela1 and relaxmon, makes a lot of sense. I also hesitate for the same reason - he knows the sport more than a casual fan and he can do interesting analysis from event data, construct visualizations and abstract those into nice write-ups, but the ones that really move the needle in this field are PhD in Stats… so the ceiling will be low without at least 3 or 4 more Stats classes.

And I would mention another choice for you. A path of least resistance for you is to get the best outcome this year and try a transfer next year or the year after. Then you would have genuinely repaired the GPA if you really think that is a matter of concern. You can also parallelly try any sports analytics work. By the way, UW Madison in your list is plausible with the profile your son has.

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For the most selective colleges where a 1500 versus 1550 SAT might matter, it is less likely to matter in his case, since the GPA will be the limiting factor in his academic college admission credentials.

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All of these are reach schools, because they’re either private or out of state. The out of state public schools are going to be near triple the cost of in-state, and offer little, if any, financial aid. In my opinion, there’s no rational reason to pay that kind of tuition when there are so many perfectly affordable options in CA. CA schools would offer a bachelors degree with the exact same accreditation for a fraction of the cost.

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The problem with trying to use gap year activities to boost chances for admission is that your kid will be applying again in the early fall of the gap year (for ED) or late fall (for RD). That doesn’t allow for much time for any gap year projects, internships, etc. to have actually gotten going and impact admissions. The advantage of taking a gap year is that it would allow the entirety of senior year to be considered, including perhaps an increased GPA. But, the impact of the actual activities during the gap year would be minimal.

Michigan, Tufts, NYU, and USC are not likely or even match schools. Not because your son isn’t a great student, but because these schools are not likely schools for anyone. Tufts had an under 10% acceptance rate last year, USC was around 16%, Michigan was around 20% (for OOS), and NYU was around 12%. Early decision could increase the odds (at the schools that offer it), but even with ED, I would still consider them all reaches.

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Spend some time figuring out some strong matches that your kid would be happy to attend. We can come up with lot’s of reaches but the trickier thing I think are to find schools likely to be accepted at that your kid will be happy with. Within the UC system, UCSC might be a great candidate as a match because for a UC, their music department is pretty strong and they have a pretty extensive world music commitment and their math/computation programs are also solid. Someone mentioned Utah above, and I agree it could be a great option their music school seems significant and they are fairly strong in math/computation. CalPoly is another good potential match, although I have no idea what the music program is like there. It is somewhat unique there in terms of match vs reach because you are competing for slots in a particular major, so it really depends how popular the major is you are applying for. Another match to look at is potentially University of Rochester (NY) the academics are solid there, and Eastman is top notch for music, they might have a dual BA program. The winter weather there will be a change from CA though. Another reach to consider is Northwestern.

This is how I would rank your list of schools.

Safety

  • Indiana University (not U. of Indiana): Ranked #15 for soccer

Likely

  • Purdue

Match

  • U. of Wisconsin – Madison: Ranked #110 for soccer
  • U. of Washington: Ranked #1 for soccer

Reach

  • Michigan: Ranked #41 for soccer
  • Tufts
  • NYU
  • USC
  • Cornell
  • Rice

Schools I would consider where your son’s chances are likelier include:

  • Cal Poly SLO: Ranked #102 for soccer
  • Case Western (OH): if interested, make sure your son shows lots of interest
  • Ohio State: Ranked #95 for soccer
  • Michigan State: Ranked #55 for soccer
  • North Carolina State
  • San Diego State (CA): Ranked #59 for soccer
  • Southern Methodist (TX): Ranked #53 for soccer
  • Syracuse (NY): Ranked #56 for soccer
  • UC – Davis: Ranked #131 for soccer
  • UC – Riverside: Ranked #145 for soccer
  • UC – Santa Barbara: Ranked #88 for soccer
  • U. of Pittsburgh (PA ): Ranked #5 for soccer; if you’re interested, apply early (as in now) as it’s rolling admissions and top candidates who applied too late were shut out
  • U. of Rochester (NY): #2 in its D3 region + Eastman School of Music

Additionally, several of these schools are in locations with professional sports teams, which could be a great way to get internships and go further in that field, if that’s what interests him. All the soccer rankings are D1 rankings, unless indicated otherwise (and yes, I realize your son is not looking to play varsity soccer…but just goes to show the strength of their soccer programs). All these schools also seemed to have song strong offerings in statistics, econometrics, and similar fields.

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IMO, for an Indian male with no hooks, you probably need a 3.9 unweighted GPA and a class rank in the top 5% for the top schools.

Anecdotally, my niece had a 1570 and a higher unweighted GPA and was waitlisted at USC this year. She did get accepted to UMich. She went to a Top 150 US News high school. She’s going to Amherst.

Not sure if USC gives some kind of edge to California residents but admissions to the top schools are a crapshoot unless there is some amazing standout feature.

6 posts were split to a new thread: Chance son for U Mich and other reaches