It is not so much that such students are unwanted. It is that the mission of a public university is to offer educational opportunity widely among state residents, rather than just to the most advantaged.
“Match” is not a static definition. For a given level of achievement, increasing competition (often simply due to population growth) can turn a match school into a reach school. If students with a given level of achievement are routinely getting denied from a school (or division/major), then that school (or division/major) is now a reach.
In some threads, parents have said that some Ivy League schools were matches or even safeties for them. Now they are considered reaches for just about everyone.
"This goes back to points A and B in reply #301 ( http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/21414633/#Comment_21414633 ). Basically, students believe that their “true intellectual peers” are only at schools that are admission reaches for themselves, rather than schools that are more realistic (admission match or safety) for themselves.
But if the “top 7” UCs are so overflowing with top-end students that many students are “pushed down” to UCR and UCM, wouldn’t those students at UCR and UCM be “true intellectual peers” of each other?"
@ucbalumnus …thanks for including the above link. No need for me to say anything more on this since you summarized the issues quite nicely there.
“It’s more complex than building more UC’s. There’s a supply and demand crisis in housing, and it’s not getting better.”
@epiphany …It is definitely more complex than building more UC’s but obviously, the demand in the UC System is outstripping supply…this will continue to get worse and worse with the schools continuing to get tougher and tougher. Building more UC’s would help the situation. Will it happen?..probably not. A new interesting thread topic on here could be “Where Should The Next UC Campuses be built?” though lol.
Not to digress, but as for housing…definitely a supply and demand crisis that will continue to get worse as well. Not nearly enough housing in Southern California being built due to regulations, NIMBYism, lack of affordable housing since developers want to build high end housing and maximize profit, along with a myriad of other factors. Rent Control is on the ballot now in many Southern California regions…will it pass? Yes. Will it help solve the housing crisis? No. A solid number of people making the mass exodus out of California now due to housing similar to the students heading OOS for options other than UC’s. Nice to have options like that!
Seems odd that someone who thinks that the peer students at UCR or UCM are “beneath” them would be satisfied with University of Oregon or Arizona State University (two apparently popular out-of-state destinations for California students) in that respect. University of Washington is also popular, but CS and engineering admission there can be quite difficult.
“Seems odd that someone who thinks that the peer students at UCR or UCM are “beneath” them would be satisfied with University of Oregon or Arizona State University (two apparently popular out-of-state destinations for California students) in that respect. University of Washington is also popular, but CS and engineering admission there can be quite difficult.”
@ucbalumnus …I’m tempted to ask my neighbor why his kid goes to Arizona. However, I already know the reason…his father went to UCSB and kid didn’t get in there…pretty common situation around here.
The primary (and perhaps only) purpose of the UC GPA is to determine eligibility for UC. It is therefor a minimum threshold to clear. Otherwise, the big computer in the sky puts that app in the auto reject pile.
btw: the app reviewers also see the class ‘rank’ of that applicant in comparison to those from that HS who also apply to UC that year.
Any notion of “rank” or similar at UC is not the rank assigned by the high school; it is based on comparison of recalculated GPAs. ELC is based on meeting a threshold recalculated GPA set by a recent previous class at one’s high school.
^^correct, and that is what I attempted to say. Any senior from that HS who does not apply to a UC that year is excluded for any calc.
“Seems odd that someone who thinks that the peer students at UCR or UCM are “beneath” them would be satisfied with University of Oregon or Arizona State University (two apparently popular out-of-state destinations for California students) in that respect.”
I do believe it’s PAC-12 sports. Arizona, Oregon State, Colorado and (to a lesser extent) Washington State are also all popular choices. That’s what they have in common. Only Utah is neglected, apparently because it’s viewed as politically out of sync with the sensibilities of (most) upper middle class Californians.
@twoin18 Does this mean that a lower quality peer group is acceptable as long as the football is good?
@Twoin18 “I do believe it’s PAC-12 sports. Arizona, Oregon State, Colorado and (to a lesser extent) Washington State are also all popular choices. That’s what they have in common. Only Utah is neglected, apparently because it’s viewed as politically out of sync with the sensibilities of (most) upper middle class Californians.”
I was surprised how many students from D’s SoCal high school have chosen colleges like University of Colorado - Boulder, UofA and Indiana University over CA schools but I think these OOS options are popular with kids for other factors like location, D1 sports, culture, campus, social activities, big school environment, more majors, etc…
@ProfessorPlum168 “If you could somehow only take 5 classes a semester,”
That’s the normal academic load at my kid’s public California high school in a good school district. 6 periods. In 9 and 10 you have to take PE, so really 5, and for kids in sports it is 5 all along.
“Does this mean that a lower quality peer group is acceptable as long as the football is good?”
Yes absolutely. The popularity of the University of Oregon went through the roof when they were winning (certainly people here liked to feel superior because they could beat Stanford and Cal at football rather than academics!). Though Colorado appears to win converts by having a pretty location rather than a good football team.
I think its mostly about the D1 sports combined with a fun campus rather than whether the football team is on a roll. Utah told us that the D1 sports has been a big factor in boosting OOS applications since they were admitted to the PAC-12 (which has led to a non-stop building program for student housing) and I assume the same is true (though perhaps to a lesser extent because its also a nice location) at CU Boulder.
“Does this mean that a lower quality peer group is acceptable as long as the football is good?”
Yes absolutely. The popularity of the University of Oregon went through the roof when they were winning (certainly people here liked to feel superior because they could beat Stanford and Cal at football rather than academics!)."
@Twoin18 …I never thought much about that D1 sports angle, but that makes sense…especially when Chip Kelly was vying for the National Championship and the successful run Oregon had with him as coach! Since he is now at UCLA, and they received a record number of student applications…maybe a link there as well lol!
@Twoin18 This is an egregious example of first-world problems: students declining a academically superior (if you believe in rankings) in-state school to go to a athletically superior OOS school that costs more. Are Cal kids really voluntarily paying more to go to a better football school?
Sounds like the under-capacity problem could solve itself by making Cal and UCLA lose more football games. Maybe cancel the programs altogether since they don’t win enough anyway. The elite schools would then become a turn-off to students who like winning football programs, making room for others who are willing to sacrifice championships for prestige.
Or alternatively, steal Alabama’s playbook and build a world-class football program at Merced and Riverside. Make it the Pac-14. Use the football and TV proceeds to fund massive merit scholarship program.
@PragmaticMom I think Cal are trying the strategy of losing more football games. I am intrigued by that idea that some kids might be choosing UCLA over Cal because they are better at football. Some might say the strategy of building a top football program worked for USC as well as Alabama.
Both Cal and ucla lost plenty of football games last year.
Having a winning sports program builds your brand. Clemson now is getting the same boost Oregon got when they were winning. It gets on kids’ radars when it wasn’t there before, it makes the campus sound like a fun, happening place.
And yes, @twoin18, USC’s run definitely helped start the boost in image it’s currently enjoying. They’ll say as much themselves. They built on it in a lot of different ways, but that was a catalyst.
Which costs less: building a world-class football program at Merced, or building more capacity at Cal?
“Sounds like the under-capacity problem could solve itself by making Cal and UCLA lose more football games. Maybe cancel the programs altogether since they don’t win enough anyway.”
@PragmaticMom …UCLA just paid BIG BUCKS to bring Chip Kelly in as coach…they have to start beating USC again one of these days lol!
“Or alternatively, steal Alabama’s playbook and build a world-class football program at Merced and Riverside. Make it the Pac-14. Use the football and TV proceeds to fund massive merit scholarship program.”
@PragmaticMom UCR used to have football back in the 70’s…Butch Johnson is a famous alum…played Wide Receiver on both the Dallas Cowboys and Denver Broncos. As for Alabama…gotta love coach Nick Saban’s foresight to remove the struggling Quarterback Jalen Hurts and go with Tua Tagovailoa (maybe the next Marcus Mariota?) in the second half for a clutch, gutsy performance to win the National Championship!
Hah, probably building up Cal. Big time football ain’t cheap! No fat cat donors at UCM to milk either.