<p>My son just received a nomination to the AFA as 6th alternate. He visited the academy for a week last year to tour and talk with cadets. Before the nomination process he received a letter stating he was a tentative candidate. That followed with his package to have teachers fill out, take the physical strength test, eye appointment and physical. All of this before the nomination came through. Currently he is Group Commander for his high school ROTC (Colonel), top 15% of his class and will graduate distinguished. As he stated in his essay, it is his dream to attend the academy, his calling. His love of country is unsurpassed and nothing would make him happier than to receive an appointment. I must point out that on his PAE, he did fail the pull-ups portion as he wasn’t aware when he applied what was required on the test and had not been preparing for that. He runs about 12 miles per week and has hit sit-ups and crunches maxed out. Knowing all of this, what do you think? I’ve been reading your posts with great interest and wanted to ask you personally for any knowledge you might share with us. Let it be known that I want this for my son, only because he does. There is no doubt in my mind that he will excel at whatever he chooses. As a mother, I’d rather he wasn’t so far away from our Texas home but it is his dream and he has my fullest support. Thank you for reading this long note. :)</p>
<p>Please respond even if you are NOT Docfranc. :) I would love to hear your thoughts on the process so far. We should have began the process in his junior year but at that time, we were not familiar with the process. Only when he visited did he decide it was his calling. He's been bombarded the past two months with preperations. I might add that he is working with an Air Force major, who has already interviewed him. Any light that can be shed on this would be greatly appreciated!</p>
<p>Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all! :)</p>
<p>Tough to say... Flunking an event on the PAE is usually bad--very bad. Often deadly. Without knowing his other particulars (SATs, Athletic involvement, class size, and what his curriculum looks like) there's not much I can say other than it doesn't look good. Your location also matters (see earlier posts on this issue). Good luck, and Merry Christmas!</p>
<p>To take the PAE again? Unfortunately, he received the package not knowing what was required and had no time to prepare. His SAT was 1180 on his initial try. He's taking it again in January. Class size is over 543? He's on the honor roll, ranks 15%. Colonel and group commander as mentioned. Volunteer work, Acedemic Decathlon, many ROTC awards as noted. Lettered in JROTC. 6th District in Texas. Trying to think of anything else that might help you relay hope.</p>
<p>Four college credits. Five AP courses, all "A's". ??????</p>
<p>Blue belt in Tae-Kwon Do. Chamber of Commerce Citizenship Award. Outstanding Academic Award in Science. Racking my brain here. Need to go pull out his file. Has a J O B. :)</p>
<p>I am not an admissions buff or anything, but I'm also applying to the academy and maybe I can offer a bit of insight that I gleaned from my SS element leader, my ALO, and various graduates/admissions officers/interviewers I have spoken with.</p>
<p>Academics are of high importance to the academy, and if there is any one thing that your son could do to improve his chances, it would be to study for and retake the SAT. You are allowed to combine scores from different sittings, but the admissions officers and the guide-packets SUGGEST obtaining the highest SAT scores possible. If your son has all As and shows a rigorous courseload, I would imagine that helps a great deal, as anything academic (grades, test scores, course difficultly, etc) gets put into a numeric academic index (out of a possible 1800), so I honestly think that improved SATs coupled with the high grades you say your son has will REALLY help him a lot. </p>
<p>You said your son got 1180? On the Acad's admissions website (which you should continue to leaf through, although it's at <a href="http://academyadmissions.com/admissions/%5B/url%5D">http://academyadmissions.com/admissions/</a> it is just in case you lost the link or something), it says "Students who score below 580 verbal and 560 math on the SAT I and below 24 English/reading and 25 math/science reasoning on the ACT normally will not be competitive for an appointment." While your son does have higher than an 1140, it's not much higher, so again... I strongly suggest you help him to boost the SAT scores, especially since academics are 60% of the selection composite</p>
<p>As for the PAE... you get two chances to pass, although failing both times pretty much disqualifies you from getting an appointment from what I understand. It's just too selective to let in people who struggle to meet the most basic physical requirements. My ALO told me about a girl with near flawless grades and SAT scores as well as a boatload of EC activities who was denied repetedly (even after appeals) because she just could not pass the PAE. Being in good physical shape is a crucial part of Acad life and also a weighty part of the application.</p>
<p>In the packet of application materials, there is space to record a "second attempt" for the PAE, and if your son has not used this option already, I'd call the person who he took it with and explain your predicament. Your son can easily take it again, assuming he's only taken it once. While having taken the PAE twice doesn't look as good, passing it in two times is IMMENSELY better than failing it. If your son has failed twice, I would get in touch with his ALO immidiately and discuss a course of action. Again, I'm not sure how much hope there is for somebody who failed the PAE.</p>
<p>Extra curriculars seem good and very strong. Certainly can't improve much there.</p>
<p>Right now, everything except his PAE (and SATs) look great, and I think if you get those two things taken care of his chances will be boosted a great deal. Good luck to him (he would be class of 2009?), and I hope to meet him in June at basic! :)</p>
<p>He has not taken the PAE twice! So there is chance for him to pass it. Woo-hoo. I was not sure if he would get a second chance. He is very commited and believe it or not, very physically fit! Practicing the pull-ups and retaking the PAE should not be a problem. He's already registered for the SAT retake in January. Another thing you mentioned. I'm going to give him the good news! </p>
<p>Yes, if admitted, he will be class of 2009. I take it you've made it? Congrats to you and thank you for your sharing your knowledge with us. :)</p>
<p>Definately talk to your ALO and/or person who administered your son's PAE about a retake. Like I said, you get two tries. :)</p>
<p>And yes, I'm waiting for my appointment letter in the mail, as I got a conditional appointment pending my nomination and received the nomination a few days ago. Thank you for your well wishes, I'm happy to try to answer anything else you might want/need to know.</p>
<p>Oh, I'm soooo very happy for you. You must be thrilled! All my son received was a packet stating he was a Tentative Candidate back in October. Then the packet with all of his due paperwork came. His high school coach sent in the PAE form. How can we get another one? Also, your link is taking me to the page I've seen a hundred times but I've navigated to all the other pages and still not found the one you are referring to. Help?</p>
<p>Can you tell us more about your receiving a conditional appointment? Had all your other testing been completed already? Also, were you the primary nominee? </p>
<p>So many questions. So little time. :(</p>
<p>Here is the page that has the scoring guide.
<a href="http://academyadmissions.com/admissions/selection/scoring/%5B/url%5D">http://academyadmissions.com/admissions/selection/scoring/</a></p>
<p>Here is the page that has to do with the PAE.
<a href="http://www.academyadmissions.com/admissions/eligibility/pae/%5B/url%5D">http://www.academyadmissions.com/admissions/eligibility/pae/</a></p>
<p>In terms of getting a second form to fill out, your ALO would be the person to call/talk to (I only took it once, so I can't really help too much there). I remember there being a place to check "second attempt" on the form though, so I'm sure if you just called the ALO and told him everything, he would be able to tell you what to do/who to call to get another form if need be/ how to record results if you don't get another form/etc.</p>
<p>Your ALO is your best friend during the admissions process. Don't be afraid to hastle him because it's his job to be hastled. ;)</p>
<p>In terms of my appointment, I think I got mine early just because I had pretty high stats in everything (and I think generally when people submit strong/meaty files, the academy offers conditional appointments to those candidates to avoid losing them to other equally as prestigious civilian universities). There wasn't really ONE specific thing in my file that stood out, nor was there really any one thing that was particularly low. Everything was just all around pretty good, and on top of all that, I had all my paper work (teacher recs included) in by very early November. I got my DODMERB exam and eye stuff done in September, which also helped (as did the fact that I was/am navigator qualified).</p>
<p>I also had an amazing ALO who was so willing to help me with everything. He did so many things, including answering all my questions and helping me to understand all the various interviews involved. He kept me organized and also wrote me a great rec because I took the time to get to know him (that's another thing... the more your ALO knows your son, the better rec he can write for him). I think my ALO was instrumental in helping me with my appointment because he was always in contact with me and the acad, telling me what was in and what wasn't in, offering me suggestions for my essays, (etc), AND making sure I was on top of deadlines.</p>
<p>One more thing that helped me was the fact that I went to USAFA Summer Seminar. Attending this program helps your chances a lot, as does the recommendation the seminar element leader writes (I think mine must have been pretty good, seeing as how I was the only girl in my element to pass the PAE while up there with no air, never having taken it before).</p>
<p>I can post my stats if you want, but if not, I'll just leave it at that my file was pretty all around strong, which is why I think I got the conditional appointment... </p>
<p>And no worries about the questions, there is always enough time. :)</p>
<p>OK, Vamp but get this. My son's ALO is in training. (AFA grad, 16 years in service.) This is his first rodeo and he is NEVER available! My son calls him and leaves a message, (3 times since this effort began) and waits for DAYS to hear back from him. The first question was whether or not my son should wear his AFJROTC uniform to the MOC interview. He said he would check with his supervisor. Then he called three days later to say, yes, if my son wanted to. Told my son to call him after the interview. Son did. ALO said, great! Let me know if you need anymore help. Son called about retaking PAE nine days ago. Still no response. Hence my presense on this board. Plan to let my son read this tomorrow afternoon and then I'm sure he'll want to join in on the threads here. </p>
<p>I was researching last weekend and came across this great site. It's members like yourself that make it worthwhile. Thanks for taking your time to respond. I'd love to hear your stats. Feel free to email them to us if you'd like. :)</p>
<p>Also, I know we would love to share your joy when your appointment letter arrives. Please let us know!</p>
<p>Santa has visited now and it's time for bed. Quick note. My son attended a three day stay at the AFA in November of 2003 with his AFJROTC. Would notes be made of that on his app? Curious to know if that helped at all compared to the summer program? </p>
<p>Happy Holidays to All!!!</p>
<p>UGH, that is horrible about your son's ALO! I can't believe that... that's what is so obnoxious to me. It is these people's jobs to be available for candidates and so many of them just shirk their duties. I've heard countless stories from my other friends applying about how little their ALOs are willing to do for them too, and I just find it disheartening.</p>
<p>The only thing I could say would be to keep calling him and don't give up, even if he doesn't call back. It is his job to be available, so I don't think you should feel bad if you're calling repetedly, especially since you need to get the PAE stuff taken care of. </p>
<p>Maybe try calling again after the holiday season? Either way, I hope you get through to him... our ALOs are so vital to the whole process that it really annoys me when I hear how some of them just don't do a very good job. :(</p>
<p>I would definately note your son's visit to the academy on his application (I think there's a spot for "other" on one of the forms) because it shows an interest. I am also pretty sure that JROTC carries a lot of weight, especially if your son's position is high, because it shows good leadership skills. I think it would help just because it does prove your son IS interested in the school and has leadership abilities.</p>
<p>Anyway, perhaps I'll PM you my stats a little bit later, but either way, have a very merry christmas and eat lots of good food. Thank you again for all of your warm wishes. :)</p>
<p>I'll definately pass along what you've shared about the ALOs. I know he doesn't want to be bothersome but your post made it clear that he isn't being so he should just KEEP calling! Thanks for sharing your experience with your own ALO. Wish he was ours....</p>
<p>DocFrance</p>
<p>are you currently at the AFA?</p>
<p>No, I don't work there. I live in Colo Springs.</p>
<p>just wondering how you came to be the moderator of the AFA forum and know quite a bit?</p>
<p>Well, if you go back to the very EARLY (first) postings here, you'll see. I'm a USAFA grad, first. So's my brother. I taught there twice. I've sponsored cadets off-and-on, depending on if we live in COS, since 1984. Both of my kids applied there--one's a junior there now. I've served on a senator's nomination board, and as a tutor, recruiter, and faculty liaison for various athletic teams at USAFA. I don't want to get too specific, because frankly, I'm trying to be a little more concerned these days about privacy--though the 'docfrance' thing is a bit of a giveaway about my identity to those that know me. I've served on active duty for over 20 years and have my MS and PhD in engineering all paid for by "Mother Blue" at two of the most prestigious schools in America.</p>
<p>The advice I give here is COMPLETELY UNOFFICIAL and may not even be correct. ;-) (You get what you pay for) I do NOT coordinate with or generally communicate with anyone on the admissions staff at USAFA. If any of you say, "But docfrance said..." you'll just get confused look. I stay up-to-date on changes in admissions policy the same way you should--by checking out the USAFA web-site. I also have MANY, MANY friends at USAFA now (and I live only a few miles away) so I can get the straight-skinny on current issues.</p>
<p>I care deeply about the institution and the AF in general and want to see the best people possible attending USAFA--that's why sometimes I can be pretty blunt. Bottom line: not everyone belongs there nor should they be considered.</p>
<p>I don't know how much longer I'll be doing this--at least through the Spring of 05 as time permits. (I do have a paying job that requires significant time!)</p>
<p>I applied for an AFROTC scholarship recently
I just sent it in on Dec 31 so they should receive the complete package Mon or Tues</p>
<p>My question for you is how long should it be until I am scheduled for an appointment and when should I find out if I have been chosen to receive an AFROTC scholarship</p>
<p>Thanks for the help</p>