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<p>This I have to disagree with. At all ivies, both groups are accepted at minimum double the rate of other applicants. Having interviewed for 30 years, I see the bar as being lower for both groups at my particular ivy.</p>
<p>Cannot speak for all Ivies. The ones I’ve watched closely are able to select among the top scholars in the country in terms of scores and gpa across racial and income groups - and they do.</p>
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<p>It will pay off. I took 7 APs senior year and had days like that, but when you get to Yale it pays off because (on average except in math) the classes are ALOT easier than the AP classes. But this is probably only for the intro classes. </p>
<p>I didn’t take every AP my school offered I skipped the dumb ones like psychology, human geography and art history and still did fine. I took 11 out of the 18 at my school and I am sure I had “most rigorous curriculum” checked off.</p>
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<p>Looking on the CC results thread it varies significantly by individual. Sometimes there are 2200+ minorities with great profiles who are rejected and then there are minorities with sub-2000 SAT scores getting into Harvard and Yale.</p>
<p>I think it’s possible that the legacies are accepted at double the rate, but hardly at the cost of lowering the standards much. (From what I’ve seen, many of the Ivy legacies at our school for example also get into an Ivy where they are not a legacy.) For URMs I think the context of your school is much more important, so a top student with low(ish) scores may get in if they are top students in their schools - especially if they’ve experience hardships.</p>
<p>My older son got out of a lot of Gen Ed requirements for the APs he took - so from that point of view the payoff was worth it for him.</p>
<p>Mathmom, I mostly agree with you on legacies. They don’t lower scores much if at all, but what I’ve seen is that there is not the same expectation for over the top ECs. At my kids’ elite private high schools, URMs who were nowhere near the top, many of them very affluent, got into HYPS ahead of much higher ranked kids.</p>
<p>Anecdotal evidence most recent ED round… URM accepted class of 2012. Big time DR dad. Good kid, non athlete, very involved, reasonably strong student but not mr AP. VERY involved EC in student leadership. Brother… nice kid, athlete but not recruitable, not among strongest students of regular classes let alone AP, and not a “joiner” as we say, in ANY way. – got in ED. Just saying… he’s a really nice kid but I think legacy (and money) counted a lot.</p>
<p>The legacies that I’ve seen get in at Harvard have been equal to or better than other students who get in. I believe that’s because Harvard alum parents discourage their offspring from applying unless the students are outstanding across the board. This particularly would be true of the parents have been alum interviewers.</p>
<p>“Sometimes there are 2200+ minorities with great profiles who are rejected and then there are minorities with sub-2000 SAT scores getting into Harvard and Yale.”</p>
<p>There also are white students with sub 2000 SAT scores who get into those schools. This happens when the students have something special to offer such as regional diversity. A few years ago, when Harvard had EA, a white male student from rural Virginia with high grades, sub 2000 scores got in. I wasn’t surprised. He was a star in his rural area, and had made maximum use of the opportunities there. Harvard has a hard time attracting rural students of any race, so he would be a good addition to the class’s diversity.</p>
<p>“What seems not to matter at all? The interview.” </p>
<p>Not true, at least not true for Harvard. I’ve had admissions officers call and e-mail me with questions about some students that I interviewed. These were students who looked great on paper, but who did things like lied during interviews. No one got in that I gave a negative report about. I’m sure that if Harvard discounted interviews, Harvard wouldn’t have bothered to contact me before making a decision.</p>
<p>I think that interviews can tip students in or out.</p>
<p>“As has been said… some kids just arent that socially adept to pull off an interview… and this shouldn’t be used against them. For example, you have to be a special kind of person to want to spend your life in a research lab or working a math problemj and they probably aren’t going to be the most social among us. Seriously, some engineers I know can barely hold a conversation!! Yet, they are hugely successful when it comes to building rocket engines.”</p>
<p>There are many schools for the brilliant, but not socially adept, but in general, Harvard isn’t interested in such students since the peer interaction is a great deal of what makes Harvard special.</p>
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<p>From our high school, socioeconomic factors were key. URM in the top 10% of the class from a lower socioeconomic background were golden. Not much of any bump for other URMs.</p>
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<p>Surgical research - Harvard grad
Actual Rocket Scientist - Harvard grad</p>
<p>Perhaps they are exceptions, but both their children go to Harvard as well and while perfectly nice kids, definitely not social. And I don’t mean this as a slam, but you make it sound like Harvard is somehow omnipotent in their admissions. The only people who think Harvard is as a great as all that seem to be the graduates of Harvard. ;)</p>