<p>Can anyone give me a brief description of the differences between the campuses? My son expresses a preference for universities in the north. I was pleased to note that at MN expenses are the same for out-of-state students as for in-state. Son just visited Truman State in MO, and liked it, but wished it was in MN, WI or MI. He hasn't ruled out LACs, but money is more of an issue this time around, and he has yet to take the SAT or ACT (he's a junior) to give an idea of what kind of merit aid he might expect.</p>
<p>MN State schools? Don’t count on much merit aid at all. Truman is less expensive for MN students then the instate costs at the MN state schools. I can’t think of any MN state school campus that comes close to comparing with Truman’s campus (beauty, buildings, facilities, etc.). The LAC’s in MN are far better choices and most offer liberal merit aid bringing the costs below the state school costs and need aid is often there into higher income levels then you would find at state schools. The campuses are much better, better facilities, etc. The comparable MN state school to Truman is U of MN-Morris. Fantastic school and one to consider. The rest, eh, nothing spectacular really.</p>
<p>WI school to consider if he liked Truman would be UW-Eau Claire. </p>
<p>Have him take an online ACT test or get a book at the book store. Don’t worry about timing it, just take it to get an idea of where he falls. It really helps narrow down the choices.</p>
<p>Run some net price calculators at the various schools to get a feel for what you may pay at a state school vs LAC after you get a ball park on the ACT.</p>
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<p>Only true for some campuses like Morris (the 2,000 student public LAC); Twin Cities does have additional tuition for out of state students (but even with that, it is one of the lower cost out of state public universities).</p>
<p>Thank you, Steve and ucbalumnus. I thought Truman State could be a really nice fit, and we all liked it very much. It’s funny what students find important (he loved the large tortoise walking freely through the Biology Dept; doesn’t like the fact of heading south to go to college). Thanks for the perspective on LACs and tuition costs. Older brother goes to St Olaf with a lot of merit aid. When he gets home from his summer job, I’m going to hire him to do some test prep with his younger bro. PSAT in Nov will help to give us some idea. Will look into UMN Morris and UW Eau Claire. Much appreciated!</p>
<p>What is wrong with going one state south?</p>
<p>As you probably know, St. Olaf is next to another small private LAC, Carleton, and not far from the Twin Cities campus of University of Minnesota. If visiting, it may be worth visiting all three in one trip.</p>
<p>Ha, ha, that was my question to my son. What is wrong with going one state south. He wants to go farther from home and likes a colder climate. In the final analysis, finances may be the most important factor though. I want him to visit Beloit and Earlham. Pretty sure Carlton will be too selective, even as a reach.</p>
<p>If money is an issue and Carleton is a reach, don’t bother to visit there. If he will consider LACs, Gustavus might be an option.</p>
<p>Steve, can you give a little info about UMN Morris, why you think of it as a fantastic school? Thanks!</p>
<p>We’ll check into Gustavus, intparent, thank you.</p>
<p>the campus in Duluth is sub par at best</p>
<p>For MN public schools, by far your best bet is the Twin Cities campus. There is a sizable amount of merit aid given out at that school but it can be competitive with the amount of students that enter every year.
Duluth is really not that great of a school in comparison to other MN schools. It really is quite a party school and doesn’t have any particular reputation.
Morris is a very quaint and nice school. It is small and is a nice choice for students that want to be far from the cities and on a smaller campus. I am not sure about aid there, so you may want to look at their scholarship list online.</p>
<p>Going on pure costs though, I would say that any public school in MN far outweighs going to a private school. Unless he has great academics or the ability to get need based aid, you should look toward the public schools with a good reputation because I am not aware of any private school in MN with tuition that is less than 35k per year.</p>
<p>orion12–I see we differ in the “good schools” in MN. With the exception of some programs at the U of MN and Morris, the state schools in MN are no where near the academic standards of the private schools, cost aside. The aid is VERY generous at most of the private schools in MN and for above average students and better are usually far less expensive after merit aid. Qualifying for that aid, with the exception of Carleton, usually is a 3.5 and a 26+ ACT (28 or better nets you the best aid though). Gustavus ranks in the top 10 for the amount of aid given and the % of students receiving that merit aid. There isn’t a single MN state school that comes close to what the private schools in MN are offering financially. </p>
<p>Duluth is a great school if you want to go to dental school.</p>
<p>What also may be important in his school selection are his intended or possible major(s).</p>
<p>As far as net cost at the private schools versus UMN TC and Morris, you can try the net price calculators to see what need-based aid may be like, but applying is the only way to find out what merit scholarships may come. Generalizations about likely net cost may not necessarily apply to your situation.</p>
<p>If UW- Eau Claire is on the radar UW- La Crosse should also be considered as both are the next caliber schools for Wisconsin residents who don’t go to UW- Madison or the U of Minn- Twin Cities (where there has been tuition reciprocity).</p>
<p>If your son wants cold, you might consider the University of Wyoming. OOS tuition/fees/room/board is $22,500. They have a generous OOS scholarship program based purely upon grades and test score which will bring the cost done even more. They have their scholarship requirements online.</p>
<p>The state is putting quite a lot of oil tax revenue into the university. We were very impressed. The worst thing is the weather. Cold is expected. But the wind is non-stop. The location is the biggest drawback for the school.</p>
<p>Montana and Montana State might also be an option. After scholarships, both could be around $21,000 or less depending on grades and scores. Montana State has their scholarship amounts and score requirements online.</p>
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<p>I think SteveMA is vastly underrating the University of Minnesota-Twin Cities both academically and financially, and wildly overestimating how much merit aid is available at private colleges in Minnesota.</p>
<p>The University of Minnesota-Twin Cities is ranked in the top 25 nationally in both undergrad business and engineering; in Chem E it’s generally ranked among the top 3 to 5. It’s also got top faculties in fields like econ, poli sci, psychology, math, and biology. Total COA for OOS students is about $29K, which is less than in-state COA at some other public universities and about $30K less than COA at Carleton or Macalester, the only private schools in the state that I would rate as clearly better than UMN-TC academically (and then not in all fields). That means you’d need to score need-based grants and/or merit scholarships of more than $30K from one of the private schools to beat UMN-TC in price. A student with an EFC of less than $29K can sometimes do that; both Carleton and Macalester pledge to meet 100% of need. But keep in mind that a non-trivial fraction of the need-based FA that Carleton and Macalester award is in the form of loans and/or work-study, which are really forms of self-help. So it’s entirely possible that an OOS student with an EFC of, say, $24K might actually find it cheaper to attend UMN-TC. With an EFC above $29K, the net cost of attending UMN-TC will almost always be lower.</p>
<p>As for merit aid, the awards are neither as big nor as numerous as SteveMA suggests. According to its common data set, Carleton gives out a trivial amount of merit aid, about $300K per year, which is about $75K per class. That’s not going to go very far. That would be 3 awards of $25K, but it looks like they prefer to dole it out in smaller awards of $3K or so. That would cover about 25 students per class, but at a level that’s not going to come anywhere near making up the COA gap versus the University of Minnesota. </p>
<p>Macalester is only slightly more generous with merit aid, giving out a total of $814K, or about $204K per class. Again, that’s either going to fund a trivial number of people generously, or a larger number of people trivially. They report their average merit award is about $10K, so that would fund about 20 students in each class, but an average merit award of $10K would still leave Macalester’s COA, net of that award, at about $18K higher than UMN-TC.</p>
<p>As you move down the food chain, the private colleges tend to give more in merit aid but in most cases correspondingly less in need-based aid. St. Olaf is perhaps the singular exception. It gives a little over $6 million in merit aid, or about $1.5 million per class, with an average merit award of about $10K, which would fund about 150 merit awards per class out of a freshman class of about 850. More generous, to be sure, but the average merit award is still going to leave St. Olaf much more expensive than UMN. St. Olaf also claims to meet 100% of need, which is actually exceptionally generous for a college ranked at its level. But again, for most students St. Olaf will be cheaper than UMN-TC only if their EFC is less than $29K (assuming zero FA from UMN, which is probably a lowball estimate, and 100% grants from St. Olaf, which will be rare). St. Olaf students are roughly the same caliber as UMN-TC students. It’s a school best known for math and music, especially vocal music. It’s a nice little school, but I wouldn’t rate it clearly better than UMN-TC in probably anything other than vocal music. </p>
<p>A rung down, Gustavus Adolphus meets 100% of need for only 47% of its students. It also gives merit aid, again at an average of $10K, but they don’t publish a common data set that would allow us to calculate how many people actually get that merit aid. I wouldn’t rate Gustavus as competitive with UMN-TC academically. Only 33% of Gustavus students were in the top 10% of their HS class, versus 43% at UMN. So you might or might not get a lower net price point, but you’re essentially buying into a weaker class.</p>
<p>Around the same level as Gustavus is St. John’s University, in Collegeville, MN. This is actually a very sweet little LAC that gets little love on CC. It meets full need for only 42% of its students. Its average merit award is a little under $13K, but again we have no common data set, so we can’t determine how many people actually get those awards. At St. John’s, only 27% of entering freshmen were in the top 10% of their HS class, again significantly weaker than UMN-TC. </p>
<p>These are all good schools, and I wouldn’t fault anyone for choosing any of them. But notwithstanding SteveMA’s claims, money doesn’t grow on trees at private colleges in Minnesota. They start with a high COA; the best of them meet full need, and that’s about all you can expect from them, so from a financial standpoint they’ll be a better bargain for those with a low EFC. As you move down the pecking order in quality, the merit aid gets somewhat more generous and the need-based aid gets less generous, but you’re still starting from a high COA so very few people are going to find the net cost lower than UMN-TC on the strength of merit awards alone. A few no doubt will, but they’ll also be buying into a weaker class and a weaker institution. Which is the whole point of big merit awards, to land a few high-stats kids who absent the merit awards would almost certainly be aiming higher.</p>
<p>Those of you saying duluth is a party school. It isn’t. Some of my best friends’ older siblings go there and it is a very good school. Definitely good for people that like the outdoors. They have great academics and its smaller, but not too small.</p>
<p>Have just found this site and getting familiar with info here. From what I can tell, so far this site provides GREAT help and info for parents.
First post
vthorsen: I thoroughly agree UMD–Great outdoors stuff, good school but small.<br>
Francie12: Have you considered the 5 school association (Macalester, St. Thomas, St. Catherines, Augsburg, Hamline)–all of which are just a bus ride apart. Also, the UofM-TC. Great all around school.<br>
Bclintonk: Wow great info on FA!</p>
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<p>This also doesn’t square with the published data, which say that 28% of OOS undergrads at UMN Twin Cities receive merit (non-need-based) aid, at an average award of $4,709. Getting that average award would bring net COA for an OOS student down to a little over $24K per year, or right around the level of total COA for an in-state student. You’d need to get need-based grants and/or merit scholarships worth $35K per year to make Carleton or Macalester comparable in price, which at those schools you’re only going to get if your EFC is quite low. (Some people might be willing to pay a premium to attend Carleton or Mac; I would, and I already pay a hefty premium to send my D1 to a top LAC in the Northeast, but I have no illusions about this, I’m buying a luxury good, which is what schools like Carleton and Macalester are selling). </p>
<p>In total, UMN-TC gives out about $19 million/year in merit awards. Some of that is reserved for in-state students, but some is awarded purely on merit regardless of residence and some is specifically reserved for OOS students.</p>
<p>bclintonk-$4000 off 28K isn’t much in my book, especially looking at other options. When OOS costs for MN students at state schools in numerous other states is LESS than what MN students pay for in state tuition-it’s not much in my book. With NPC calculations, for us anyway, the MN state schools are the most expensive schools our kids have looked at. Sorry, it’s just not a deal given the other schools the OP is considering, which will come in $5000 or more less than the MN state schools before any aid is applied.</p>
<p>I have run the NPCs for many schools in MN as an OOS student. UMN-TC (without any merit aid) would be cheaper for us than Carleton, Mac, St Olaf, Gustavus, and St Thomas. It would be only about $2,000 more than St Johns. </p>
<p>Again, as bclintonk stated, for many of us OOS’ers with EFCs above $30,000 or so, UMN-TC is a great value. I would gladly pay more for it than most (if not all) of the schools lower on the food chain than say St Olaf. The academics at U MN are solid across the board.</p>