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<p>Then don’t tell me we are wrong about the cost of the LAC’s around MN/WI/IA compared to the U of MN if you don’t have any experience with those schools. If you are looking for merit aid, the schools on your list are not the places to look, therefore, we have not.</p>
<p>bclintonk: Are you looking at just finances when you compare schools? All of the LACS have very different cultures from each other and the U can’t even be compared to them. So very different in all aspects. Also wanted to add that Luther College in Iowa gives excellent merit aid for good students.</p>
<p>^ SteveMa,
Don’t get so hot under the collar, buddy. look, i’m perfectly happy to concede that if you’re willing to trade down in quality, you can probably find some good merit awards. But let me quote what you said at the very outset of this thread, in reference to “state schools in Minnesota”:</p>
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<p>That’s a pretty general statement. Granted, it does say “most,” not “all.” But the three Minnesota LACs that get by far the most attention on CC are Carleton, Macalester, and St. Olaf, and with good reason, because they are by far the most highly regarded and best-resourced (in terms of both faculty and financial strength, along with everything the latter buys) of the Minnesota LACs. Now you’re telling me you were never referring to them because they don’t give much merit aid. I added a fourth, Gustavus, and pointed out that even with the $15K merit award they indicated was likely, the cost for us still exceeded the cost of UMN-TC by a fairly wide margin; but I acknowledged that might not be the case for everyone.</p>
<p>I just think it’s extremely misleading, and a disservice to CCers, to suggest that as a group, private LACs are going to be both cheaper (for everyone?) and superior in educational quality to UMN-TC. Some will no doubt find some of them cheaper; many won’t. As for educational quality, you’re entitled to your own opinion, but the objective fact is that the schools you’re talking about, once you exclude Carleton, Macalester, and St. Olaf, have weaker student bodies and, in my professional opinion, not nearly as strong faculties as UMN-TC. (I actually know faculty at a number of these schools, and they’d say the same thing). So as I see it, you’re making a trade-off: you’re willing to trade down in educational quality for merit awards. That’s not necessarily a bad choice, but it’s a trade-off that some others might not be willing to make. And not everyone will find those schools cheaper; just because that’s your experience (based, I gather, just on running their NPCs, which may or may not accurately reflect the final FA award) doesn’t mean everyone is going to have the same results.</p>
<p>If your child is going to apply to the U of MN, then I would suggest doing it now. I believe the app is already online. There is only so much money to distribute and I would guess since they are a rolling school that there is some consideration given to early apps. They were very flexible about getting the app and the high school transcript at different times. (HS guidance counselor was not yet ready with class rank, etc but because we requested it in July she put our request on the top of her pile)</p>
<p>Our only experience is in the School of Science and Engineering, but we are very pleased. Financially we could have made it work had S attended high priced private, but with the poor economy and grad school in the future attending U of MN was the right decision for our family. </p>
<p>We know kids that attend all the schools mentioned in this thread and they are all pleased with their decisions.</p>
<p>If you have not seen the stats for last year’s freshman, here is the link:</p>
<p>[Academic</a> Profile](<a href=“http://admissions.tc.umn.edu/academics/profile.html]Academic”>Academic Profile of Fall 2022 Admitted Freshman Applicants by College | Office of Admissions)</p>
<p>I may have read some earlier posts incorrectly, but the U of MN is NOT considered a state school.</p>
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<p>How is University of Minnesota not a state school?</p>
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<p>NO, I am not!!! I thought it made clear upthread that in our household, cost is barely a factor at all, not because we’re rolling in dough but because we have enough assets that all the schools that give need-based aid only–which includes most of the best LASs–are going to say we’re full-pays, so if we want D2 to attend a college at that level (like her sister, who is currently enrolled as a full-pay at a top Northeastern LAC), we’re almost certainly going to be paying through the nose. D2 will probably apply to about 10 colleges, of which 7 or 8 will be LACs. She is planning to apply to UMN-TC as her ultimate safety. She’s also planning to apply to Wisconsin-Madison because she figures if as a last resort she’s going to end up at a big university, she’d prefer Wisconsin (and with tuition reciprocity, the cost is essentially the same). But because Wisconsin’s admission standards are a bit higher, it’s not quite the same ultimately safety (still highly likely, though); that’s the reason to apply to both. Apart from that, she’s looking at LACs, mostly in the Northeast, posing varying degrees of admission difficulty, from safeties (or near-safeties) to reaches. And yes, we’re well aware that these schools have very different personalities, cultures, and strengths. Cost has not been a factor in selecting that list, and it probably won’t be a factor in where she ends up, which I think likely will be at a top LAC in the Northeast. </p>
<p>So no, I’m not “looking at just finances.” The only reason I looked at finances at all on this thread was to rebut what I though were some misleading claims made by another poster upthread.</p>
<p>uscalumnus - I have been corrected many times over on CC for using state school when referring to the U of MN. I am supposed to refer to it as our state’s “flagship” and “state” status is reserved for St. Cloud, Minnesota State, Winona, etc.</p>
<p>This could be a east/west coast thing…or this could be yet another side effect of my menopause!</p>
<p>2010-11 IPEDS Average Net Price Data</p>
<p>University of Minnesota - Twin Cities (in-state)
Average net price: $16,019</p>
<p>Income
$0-$30k: $7,929
$30k 48k: $8,566
$48k - 75k: $12,639
$75k 110k: $18,782
$110k and more: $20,532
St. Olaf College
Average net price: $26,276</p>
<p>Income
$0-$30k: $8,407
$30k 48k: $12,933
$48k - 75k: $19,075
$75k 110k: $24,781
$110k and more: $32,538
Gustavus Adolphus College
Average net price: $22,597</p>
<p>Income
$0-$30k: $10,712
$30k 48k: $12,858
$48k - 75k: $17,155
$75k 110k: $22,642
$110k and more: $27,572
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<p>What exactly is the definition of “state school” in this context? Do the people trying to “correct” you have a definition of “state school” that includes an implied assumption of inferiority?</p>
<p>(Yes, I attended and graduated from a state school.)</p>
<p>Sorry bc…just meant that the cultures of the schools are all so different. For example my girls were recruited by Mac and Carleton but when they visited they were totally turned off by the student body mix. Nothing bad about it…just wasn’t their cup of tea when they encountered many students playing sword games and Dungeons and Dragons. When they looked at the U they hated the urban setting and the HUGE intro classes. That’s all that I was alluding to. Guess we figured they were bright enough to succeed/bloom wherever they were planted and so far it has worked well! It is all good if they find their comfort zone! :)</p>
<p>Have lived in this state for a long time. We all see the U as a state school.</p>
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<p>I’m not sure what you mean by this. UMN is not part of the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities system (MnSCU), but it definitely is a state entity. It has its own governing body, the Board of Regents, who are elected by the state legislature, one for each of the state’s congressional districts and four at large. It was founded by an act of the Territorial legislature in 1851, several years before Minnesota became a state, but when the State of Minnesota was organized, the original state constitution recognized the University’s charter and guaranteed it “constitutional autonomy,” which the state legislature describes as “a legal principle that makes a state university a separate department of government, not merely an agency of the executive or legislative branch.” The U closed down during the Civil War. When it reopened in 1867, the legislature designated it Minnesota’s official land grant university, making it eligible to receive federal support under the Morrill Land-Grant Act. It is partially funded by appropriations of the state legislature; the legislature may place conditions on those appropriations, but not to the extent they interfere with the U’s constitutional autonomy.</p>
<p>So I don’t think it makes sense to say it’s “not a state school,” unless you mean by that only that it’s not part of MnSCU, or that enjoys a special status of constitutional autonomy–but that’s potentially a very misleading way of saying it. The U is top to bottom a state institution, one that has independent state constitutional status, i.e., it’s a state entity unto itself, independent of the legislative, executive, and judicial branches. I’d say that makes it a “state school.”</p>
<p>noimagination, thanks for the data in post #48.</p>
<p>It looks like on average for Minnesota residents, UMN is cheaper than both Gustavus and St. Olaf at every income level. Of course, there will be exceptions. I’m not at all surprised this is true at the higher income brackets; I am a little surprised it’s also true at the lower income brackets.</p>
<p>Following up on noimagination’s useful post #48 on average net price at various income levels, I just quickly ran the IPEDS data on 11 additional MN-IA-WI LACs (Carleton, Macalester, Grinnell, Concordia (Moorhead), St. John’s, Lawrence U, Beloit, Ripon, Luther, Coe College, and Cornell College). </p>
<p>Of these, the average net cost came in higher than in-state net cost at UMN in every income bracket at every school, with 2 exceptions: For those in the $0-$30K income bracket, Beloit at $6,869 came in $1,060 below the U. At the next bracket up, though, Beloit was almost twice as costly ($16,019 at Beloit versus $8,566 at the U), and it remained higher all the way up the income scale. The other exception was Ripon, which is $62 cheaper than the U at in $75K-$110K bracket, and $1,890 cheaper in the $110K+ bracket. Not the greatest school, though. </p>
<p>Perhaps the most eyebrow-raising disparity: at Carleton, the average net cost for those in the $0-$30K bracket was $16,122, or more than double the average net cost of attending the U for those in the same bracket. This is causing me to rethink my longstanding view that those in the lowest income brackets might be better off financially at a private school that is need-blind in admission and meets 100% of need for 100% of its students. That price just seems prohibitively expensive for households in that income bracket. And surprisingly, the average net cost for those in the next bracket up, $30K-$48K, is actually lower (at $15,999) than for those in the lowest income bracket. Maybe there’s just something funky in the data, e.g., not enough data points so that students from households with incomes very close to $30K but substantial assets throw off the data for the lowest income bracket, but whatever it is, I found that very surprising.</p>
<p>Assuming the IPEDS data are accurate, Minnesota residents on average will pay substantially less to attend the U than to attend private LACs in the region. There will be exceptions, however, and for some it may be worth it to pay a premium to attend a LAC instead of a large public university; the experience is just very different.</p>
<p>I could be wrong, but I thought Carleton was need aware, not truly need blind.</p>
<p>Okay. Let’s chalk up my lack of clarity regarding state schools to high heat or too much TV time watching the Olympics. </p>
<p>I was trying to say that while we proudly regard the U as our flagship, from a labeling or nomenclature perspective we don’t categorize it the same way as st cloud state, Mankato/MN state, Bemidji State, Winona or Moorhead State. Regardless of my error, The state of MN is a great place to live and to attend college. Done :p</p>
<p>It all comes down to what the student brings to the table as an individual and whether the school values those talents. Hard to know for sure until that package arrives! In our case the merit aid made attending a private LAC less expensive than the U and we found this true for many neighbor kids.</p>
<p>NorthMinnesota–same here–like I said earlier, I have yet to find a student where the U of MN was actually less expensive, but then again, I don’t know anyone that is so “brand” conscious when it comes college that they haven’t looked and the really top notch LAC’s all around the area besides MAC, STO and Carleton. It could be too, that our kids hang out with some really outstanding kids who are attractive to these schools so they do get great merit aid to attend.</p>
<p>bethievt, you are correct, Carleton is not need blind.</p>
<p>Could someone clarify post #48 for me? Is the average “Net Price” being quoted here before or after student loans are factored in?</p>
<p>^ [The</a> Integrated Postsecondary Education Data System - Average Institutional Net Price FAQs](<a href=“http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/resource/institutional_net_price.asp]The”>http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/resource/institutional_net_price.asp)
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