So, my C is am debating whether to apply ED to Mudd or EA to Caltech. C loved both of these schools on the visits. We are familiar with both schools and understand the difference in curriculum for engineering, reputations, campuses, sizes, UG only v G only. In other words, C would be thrilled to attend either school.
C wants to major in engineering, not CS, math, physics, etc. C has the grades, scores, research etc. to apply to these schools, but of course they are both reach schools. Attending either school, C plans to work extremely hard, but also wants to engages in social activities (not a partier, drinker, etc), but hang with friends. C plays sports and hopes to continue playing. C also enjoys downtime and being with friends. C found the students interesting and nice at both schools, but also quirky. Most people would say C am pretty mainstream socially. C would be a perfect fit for MIT socially and academically, but for reasons I won’t include here, its off the table. C does not play video games for fun. C loves math, physics, chem. etc, but does not do math problems for fun. (I am a bit freaked out by the intensity of both Mudd and Caltech given what I have read on CC, but maybe that is unwarranted given my confidence that C would thrive at MIT). We hoped that the visits would make the decision easier, but C is still stuck and a decision has to be made between the two schools! What are we missing? How would you make this decision?
I believe that Caltech’s EA is non binding, and Mudd’s ED only gives a slight boost in admission - 16% acceptance rate vs 13%. Mudd says they only filled 36% of its class early decision.
IMO, I would apply to Caltech EA and Mudd regular decision. If your child gets into both, then go back and re-visit for accepted student days.
Let me add that C must pick b/t EA Caltech and Mudd ED. If not, then C would do exactly as you wisely recommended: EA Caltech and RD Mudd and attend accepted students if so lucky.
ED is fine for students who know exactly where they want to go and don’t have financial aid needs, but if your child isn’t sure which is best, there is no rule that says they need to have an ED school. Mine did not apply ED anywhere.
My point is that your child does not have to make a decision now if they want to keep both options on the table.
If accepted at Mudd ED, then that is binding - process done.
While both schools are fantastic and thrilled with either, a choice has to be made. After the visits, one didn’t rise to the top (they are one and two, but don’t know the order).
So what I am asking is: Does anyone have any information on the two schools that suggests that either Mudd or Caltech would be a better fit given the info I provided? This may be an impossible task, but if you do have thoughts, I would appreciate them.
“ED is fine for students who know exactly where they want to go and don’t have financial aid needs, but if your child isn’t sure which is best, there is no rule that says they need to have an ED school. Mine did not apply ED anywhere.”
Why wait to decide anyway? We’re talking about only 2 schools here. No use in waiting if making the decision now would confer an advantage of some sort. Maybe it makes sense to go back soon and spend time at each.Why leave it up in the air. If after the first visit one didn’t seem better, go back to each.And have the student consider what would be missed if denied by X but accepted to Y and vice versa.
The vibe on the athletic teams may be noticeably different, since Mudd’s teams are joint with CMC and Scripps whereas Caltech’s are just Caltech. If it’s a tossup then maybe look more deeply into what that aspect of the experience would be like. (Also the relative competitiveness of the teams, training schedule/demands, etc. It varies by sport but my sense is that CMS teams are more play-to-win whereas Caltech teams less often expect to place at the top of the league.)
They’re both amazing schools. And it sounds like the EA/ED difference is immaterial in your case because a commitment is implicit on the recruitment front. Mudd has the aspect of being able to have friends and activities outside of the STEM-school umbrella… free-range among all seven 5C’s dining halls… the consortium has a lot to offer and can be a great resource. On the other hand Caltech has a unique culture with a lot of camaraderie. Tough call, but you can’t really go wrong either, if you’re well suited to that kind of school.
The two schools share a lot in common. However, there’s another factor OP may want to consider. Caltech probably has the edge in terms of research opportunities and depth of these researches, with advanced researches on its campus, and its affiliation with and proximity to JPL.
Harvey Mudd is unique in that it it a school that is focused on math, physics and CS, but has a Liberal Arts setup, while Caltech is a high powered research university. I would go with Mudd if you think that your son would thrive in a smaller, more personalized atmosphere, and with Caltech if your son would do better in a larger, more research driven university. More are amazing, and in both he’ll be surrounded by some of the smartest peers he’ll ever have. Both provide amazing opportunities for personal research, internships, contacts with tech companies and universities, and both have outstanding lab facilities and workshops for students.
It’s kinda like deciding between the two best restaurants in New York. As @aquapt wrote - you really can’t go wrong with either, and if your kid cannot decide, flip a coin (and if your kid doesn’t like the result, than that’s a choice as well)
The social pool is bigger at Mudd because of the 5Cs, which some students like. My Mudder liked being able to eat at the other campuses, hang out at the coffee shop on another campus, and have more non-STEM classes to pick from outside her Mudd core and major classes.
“So what I am asking is: Does anyone have any information on the two schools that suggests that either Mudd or Caltech would be a better fit given the info I provided? This may be an impossible task, but if you do have thoughts, I would appreciate them.”
If you think MIT was a good fit, then Cal Tech would be a better fit than HM. Again as others have said, if your C is not sure, do not apply ED anywhere, go with EA for Cal Tech and see what happens. Good luck!
We toured both schools. I would choose Caltech if the student wanted to go into academia or research. Harvey Mudd was more industry-focused, with an emphasis on practical applications.
I love this thread. The OP says that they’re having a difficult time choosing between Harvey Mudd and Caltech, and invariably every post is about how great both places are.
Thank you everyone. I am piecing together the pieces. @MWolf and thanks for your input!
Some specific questions and thanks b/c these “little” things will probably make the difference.
@boulders That is helpful and I we will think about that.
@theloniusmonk Thank you for that insight. Why do you think Mudd is less like MIT, which has a larger and broader approach to liberal arts than Caltech (is that akin to Mudd’s access to the other schools).
So, this is all helpful, but now have to see what C thinks. I don’t see C doing academia or hard-core research, but I may be wrong and once fully immersed in a great research project that may change. C does not have an interest at this time in law or med school. Although business is not out of the question and C wants to explore classes (if not minor, concentrate, etc in either business or Econ).
I mentioned that C is not into video games, programming (although has gotten A+ in programming classes), math competitions, etc. I get the impression that Caltech kids spend much of their free time doing that. Is that correct or is it just a subset of the students? What about at Mudd?
@bouders, I think that is false information. Many Mudders go into grad school and research careers (my kid is one). Her close friends are about a 40/60 split between grad school and industry (they are 2 years out of undergrad now). This is a few years old, and doesn’t have specifics for engineering, but in general Caltech and Mudd are 1/2 on sourcing the highest percent of STEM related grad students. There is little daylight between them in this area.
My kid was extremely well prepared for grad school (very good subject GRE score in her area of study, strong research experience, and passed her grad school qual exams on her first attempt). She is also still in close contact with one of her research PIs from Mudd. So if the student wants to go down the research path, they definitely could.
If the applicant is maybe interested in some other career paths, like econ/business, Mudd probably is the better choice. They can take some econ classes at CMC, for example. CalTech is pretty much all tech all the time. Not every Mudder stays in tech - I know of one law school student from my D’s friends, and another in a non-STEM masters program. It may just come down to a matter of preference between the campuses, other students, sports opportunities/teams etc. for this applicant.
OP, there are certainly gamers at Mudd. My kid wasn’t one, and I don’t think most of her friends were. There are a lot of other clubs and social activities going on at Mudd and the 5Cs. Now… my kid studied A LOT. And she was a bit of a “lab rat” (hung out in the lab she researched in a lot) her last couple of years. But gaming is not a dominant activity.
“So, you went to Caltech for college?”
“Yes, I went to a very strange place for college…”
Theoretical physicist (and startup founder) Steve Hsu talks about Caltech and his time there in the 1980s, starting at 17:10 here: https://youtu.be/6mUiJx_9W6g
