Caltech v Mudd for engineering

H/SS requirements:

  • Caltech: 108 units out of 486 for graduation (22.2%); 36 units in H, 36 in SS, 36 in either. Most H/SS courses are 9 units, so 108 units would take 12 courses.
  • MIT: 8 subjects of at least 9 units each (but most are 12 units each) for a total of 72 out of 360 (20% with minimum unit H/SS) to 96 out of 384 (25% with typical unit H/SS)
  • Harvey Mudd: 11 courses for 33 units out of 128 for graduation (25.8%).

So they are all in the same ballpark for volume of H/SS requirements to earn a bachelor’s degree.

Thank you for all the information.

When do most Mudd students start research? How much is done during the year versus summers? How accessible are profs for taking in UG students. We got mixed information - some said year round, some said mostly summers, some said they just didn’t have time b/c of workload.
We saw the announcement about Caltech’s latest class and know there is a huge effort to bring in women and URMs by the new Director of Admissions - do you think this will change anything about Caltech’s atmosphere or who attends (and no, I am not implying lower standards)?
And, let me reiterate, we know that getting into any of these schools is a major accomplishment and C may get into none of them! I just don’t want anyone to think that I am assuming C will get in, odds are not good. That being said, we are still trying to figure out pros and cons.

^Typical students complete many more credits than the min required for graduation, so looking at these ratios may not be appropriate. MIT/Caltech specifically require upper level H/SS courses, and I believe HMC doesn’t. They also require more specific writing intensive H/SS courses than HMC. All these upper level H/SS and writing-intensive courses can’t be taken on pass/fail basis, and HMC doesn’t have such requirement, I believe.

@ucbalumnus Thanks! I guess one question is the quality of the SS/H departments and classes at the three schools. I know MIT, but not Caltech or Mudd so much.

I don’t believe so. Caltech is one of the few schools where experienced professors chair the admission committees. Unlike 30 years ago when male:female ratio is almost 9:1, female students are already closed to 50% (45% or so) in recent classes. Because of the small size of the school and the rigor of its curriculum, there’s limited room for improvement.

The importance of SS/H at Mudd has been stressed since the founding of the school, and the department at Mudd is actually the largest department. So there is a fair amount of variety in the courses there - music, art, anthropology, sociology, literature, history, just looking at some of the professors in the faculty list. Of course, the H/SS courses at the 5Cs greatly increases the possibilities for students.

The H/SS requirements at Mudd include a depth requirement (4 courses beyond introductory in a specific area) and a breadth requirement (courses in different areas). Five of the courses must be taken at Mudd, though that can be decreased by one with the by study abroad or the lack of courses at Mudd. At least one of the courses beyond the first year must be a writing intensive course.

Each student is assigned an H/SS advisor to help develop their program and to ensure they meet requirements.

With regards to research in #41, there is a little truth to all of the answers. Virtually all of the professors have some research going on, and obviously, it will be UG students doing that research. Some students are able to get involved early on, starting Freshmen year, others may not get involved until later. There is some summer research on campus, others look for internships outside of school. All students have research or clinic during their senior year.

Social activities at both schools revolves around the dorms at HMC and houses (hovses) at Caltech. The dorms and houses have personalities, and both schools work hard to try to place the student in a compatible dorm.

Harvey Mudd students need to have a four course concentration within their eleven H/SS courses, which has to advance beyond introductory level courses. Two of the eleven courses must be writing intensive. The general pass/fail grade option rules (no more than one per semester, and one per department in an academic year, with all H/SS counting as one department) mean that no more than four H/SS courses may be taken pass/fail.

https://www.hmc.edu/hsa/curriculum/graduation-requirements/

MIT requires that three or four of the eight H/SS courses be a concentration; it appears that any allowed concentration includes an upper level course. Two communication intensive courses must be included. All H/SS must be taken for a letter grade except for frosh year P/D/F grading.

https://registrar.mit.edu/registration-academics/academic-requirements/hass-requirement

Caltech requires that 36 units of each of H and SS be divided between introductory and advanced courses (an additional 36 units of elective H/SS is also required to make 108 units). Two frosh-level humanities courses must be writing intensive. The advanced H/SS courses may not be taken pass/fail (but introductory level courses are not restricted, and all frosh year courses are pass/fail).

http://www.admissions.caltech.edu/documents/2367/Core_Curriculum_Requirements_2014.pdf

Really, all three have fairly heavy H/SS requirements compared to many other colleges. Compare to Brown (no H/SS requirements except writing, except that ABET accredited engineering majors need four H/SS courses, or about 13%).

^It’s been a few years since I last looked at these requirements. Just took another look. Your interpretations of HMC and MIT requirements seem to me to be correct. However, wrt to Caltech, your interpretation

is off a bit, in a couple of areas:

  1. Writing intensive courses are all upper level (i.e. advanced) H/SS courses. Freshman-level courses don’t count.

  2. At least 3 writing intensive courses are required, two of which can be from advance humanity courses. All of them have to be graded.

  3. Not all freshman-year courses are graded pass/fail. Only the first 2 quarters are and there’re 3 quarters in an academic year. A student can certainly select an H/SS course to be graded P/F in the 3rd quarter if s/he so choose (and use up that option for that quarter).

The most up-to-date information is in its catalog:
http://www.catalog.caltech.edu/current

Adding to my post #47, and for reference by future applicants, Caltech also requires, in addition to the H/SS requirements above, two communication courses similar to MIT: one for written presentation and another for oral presentation.

OP: you mentioned that your C was interested in engineering, but a specific type wasn’t mentioned, and it was briefly brought up in a previous post that HMC offers a general engineering degree, while Caltech has engineering of different types in different departments. Is your C OK with the general engineering approach?

HMC is unusual in that it only offers a general engineering degree, in keeping with its liberal arts approach to teaching STEM. People wonder if that is a practical approach when employers typically look for specific types. A CC poster (no longer active AFAIK) said a several years back: “Harvey Mudd… it’s less that you’re majoring in engineering in general, and more that you’re majoring in ALL OF ENGINEERING. It’s pretty intense.” “I took a pretty critical look at it when my [sibling] went through the program, but you can specialize in several different fields, and the professors there are really well-known within their subfields of engineering. It would’ve surprised me before I sat in on several classes, looked over the exams and labs, and grilled my [sibling and their] friends, but now, it doesn’t surprise me at all that they’re ranked well in various subfields.”

To approach the question of general engineering from another direction, there are two schools that are relatively young in STEM and engineering education, HMC, and most recently, Olin College. Both were started with the intent of rethinking engineering education. Olin’s model of engineering education looks a lot like the model used by HMC. Olin’s first president earned a PhD from Caltech and was Dean at a couple other engineering schools. He hired Dr. Moody, previously the head of the math department at HMC, to be the first Dean of Faculty who evidently had influence on the education model. In addition, their senior capstone program was patterned directly on HMC’s Clinic program that was developed by Mudd about 50 years ago. I’m just saying that HMC’s approach to engineering education has apparently been successful enough that its ideas are being adopted by other schools.

@“Miles Perrara” Thanks. I think both approaches work well for C, not sure if there is any preference.

Interesting thread. Your son sounds like mine. Wants engineering and business principles and doesn’t like programming. He’s in Industrial engineering at Michigan. Think of it as Business engineering. But I don’t think either schools has this major. I would maybe look at other schools curriculum and get an idea of what classes the students take and see if something like that is possible.

Even though he likes these two schools they are both very hard gets. I am sure he has some safeties he likes as well?

Good Luck.