<p>I can think of quite a few instances where Berkeley would be a much better choice for someone than Caltech. Not everyone wants to be at a place that only has technical majors, <1000 undergraduates, or forces you to take a large number of post-AP math and science courses just to graduate. There are also many other factors like cost, location, and student culture that might matter to a student a lot more than "prestige."</p>
<p>I would also pick Berkeley over Harvard for undergrad in a heartbeat, but that's just my preference (and I still like Caltech best.)</p>
<p>If you are really undecided, then consider attending CalTech for at least two years with the possibility of transferring to UCal @ Berkeley for your final two years if you are unhappy at CalTech. It is probably easier to transfer to Berkeley from CalTech than it would be from Berkeley to CalTech.</p>
<p>
[quote]
forces you to take a large number of post-AP math and science courses just to graduate.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think this is a key point. If you go to Berkeley you're going to have a lot more flexibility in what you study, and way more options in things you can study. You can go in-depth in some areas, take easier classes in other areas, and then take other classes of interest. CalTech is not as flexible.</p>
<p>if you did those AP science courses in high school because you thought they were fun - Caltech, if you did them to work the admissions system - cal Berkeley</p>
<p>Antiquark wrote:</p>
<p>"Berkeley has over 26 times as many undergrads, 8 times as many graduate students, and over 3 times as many faculty, obviously lower in sciences and engineering, than Caltech."</p>
<p>Obviously lower? Which science or engineering field is ranked lower? According to USNWR, that would be the earth sciences. Everything else, Berkeley is ranked higher (though not by much) or tied with Caltech.</p>
<p>Just thought to give credit where credit is due. Berkeley's academics are truly amazing!</p>
<p>
Obviously lower? Which science or engineering field is ranked lower? According to USNWR, that would be the earth sciences. Everything else, Berkeley is ranked higher (though not by much) or tied with Caltech.</p>
<p>Just thought to give credit where credit is due. Berkeley's academics are truly amazing!
</p>
<p>While I personally don't think that Berkeley's academics are better than Caltech's, I don't think anyone wants to get into a flamewar over which school is better, the quality of USNWR ratings, etc. However, I think you misunderstood what Antiquark was writing. He was trying to say was that Berkeley has 26 times as many undergrads, 8 times as many grad students, 3 times as many faculty, but the difference in size along the sciences and engineerings is not as huge if you look at sciences and engineering, not that their quality of education in these fields is lower.</p>
<p>Oops, I just realized that Antiquark was actually talking about the science and engineering faculty size being lower than 3 times...</p>
<p>Sorry for the misunderstanding.</p>
<p>Yeah, that is what I meant -- sorry about the ambiguous wording. Obviously, Berkeley's academics are amazing. I, however, as much as I love Berkeley, found Caltech to be a better fit for me. At this level, the minute differences in academic reputation or quality of faculty are very negligible.</p>
<p>I certainly did not mean to suggest that one school's academics are better than another's because of slight differences in rankings. How can research and faculty quality be precisely quantified anyway? I was simply reacting to what I thought was factual error and tried to correct it, that's all.</p>
<p>I was agreeing with you that whatever perceived academic prestige differences there are between the two schools are negligible in science and engineering.</p>
<p>Yes, they're negligible, and btarlinian will not see a "flamewar" from me, for I never intended to start one. :-) I have tremendous respect for all top schools, be it private or public, LAC or research-oriented. I respect their excellence and commitment in what they do, whether it's teaching and/or discovering new knowledge.</p>
<p>berkeley v. caltech, i was in the same boat, but i chose berkeley, for a few reasons. Again, as i think it was mentioned before, it depends on how sure you are about your major or your interests. i did take the "ap science courses for the fun of it", but i don't think that's a defining factor for some people. berkeley has a more diverse student body with a lot of things going on whereas caltech seemed dead when i visited there (noon time, weekday, not finals week). </p>
<p>when i was deciding (like a week ago) i thought that part of college is the experience. it's the best place to discover what your true passions are, in my opinion, and berkeley was better for that self-discovery. </p>
<p>intelligence/potential of the average student at berkeley? due to the simple fact that the student body at berkeley is much more diverse than at caltech, technically the "average" student may be less intellectual or skilled than the average student at caltech. however, i would say that the 200 or so kids in the freshman class at caltech may be equal to the 200 top kids in the freshman class at berkeley. it's very cut throat due to the higher number of students, but that may be good practice for the future.</p>
<p>i've met people who would fit in well at caltech, i just don't think there's very many of them</p>
<p>lol I'd have to wake up before noon to be seen around campius at that time...</p>
<p>Hahahaha Antiquark:</p>
<p>"The squirrels at Berkeley are more aggressive than those at Caltech."</p>