The conclusions this article draws are just wrong …
I think what @dimkin refers to are the personal bio section of pitchbooks and other marketing materials where executives/principals’ personal bios are included. Regardless how abbreviated these bios are, where they went to colleges are always highlighted, the reason being that the people who receive/read/examine these marketing materials pay attention to such bios. Not unlike most CC posters, they aren’t indifferent to the subtle hints contained in the bios, including the prestigiousness of the executives/principals’ educational background.
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Didn’t read the article but I’m assuming all the other sports conferences combined probably graduate 50x kids every year more than the Ivy’s so the Ivy’s are doing very well on a percentage basis.
Also, having worked with start-up/VC companies (some sold to Fortune 500 companies) a lot of people that come from those T20 schools aren’t interested in the company ladder. They start-up, turn-over and move-on. I’ve seen it with CMU grads and they do have a preference when hiring. Doesn’t mean you can’t get in if you went to state U but it’s tougher.
I think it’s a no-brainer. Rice is a top school and there are a lot of internship and job opportunities all over Houston and Texas. Being in this line of work myself, the school is of little to no importance anyway. No doubt she’ll find a good job out of college. Going debt free is a win-win for everyone. She’s not weighed down with debt. You can have the money for retirement, and she can start a career without having to take high pressure corporate jobs to make loan payments. Believe me, having to do do that is a fast track to misery.
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Here’s what Malcolm Gladwell has to say on the subject:
When people start going on about “T-10” they aren’t referring to CMU, Caltech, HMC, or other colleges which feed into the start ups (and to grad schools), but to the Ivies, Duke, etc. The only place like those in that T-10 designation is MIT.
It is not by chance that the colleges which people associate with Big Business are the ones which have the highest percentage that are legacies, athletes, and donors kids. Again, people ignore the fact that these colleges accept a very large proportion of their students from groups whose place on corporate ladders is assured, and come to the incorrect conclusion that these colleges are the cause of these people being where they are.
Other sports conferences also have combined 1/50 of the percent of kids from the top 0.1% that the Ivies have. About 3% of Harvard’s undergraduates come from the top 0.1% and 15% from the top 1%, versus less than 1% of UIUC students from the top 0.1%, and 2% from the top 1%. In numbers that is around 200 students at Harvard from the top 0.1%, versus some number that is smaller than 300 for UIUC, and over 1,000 from the top 1% at Harvard, versus around 840 for UIUC.
On average, the Ivies have 3%-4% from the top 0.1%, versus less than 1% for the Big 10, and Ivies have an average of 15%-20% from the top 1%, versus 1.5%-2.5% of the Big 10.
In actual numbers, the Big 10 have about 600,000 undergraduates versus about 60,000 for the Ivy league, so not 1/50 but closer to 1/10.
Since, on average, 10x the number of wealthy and very wealthy students attend any give Ivy as attend any given Big 10 university (except NWU), it is clear that both conferences have the same number of students from very wealthy families.
CEOs who are founders of their own companies have a diverse academic background, and also diverse background by way of income. Those who were hired from other positions in other corporations, as well as other top executives, tend to favor more “elite” colleges, but also tend to come from the top 1% by wealth.
I think anyone who pays six figures extra for Columbia or Caltech over Rice, just because they expect commensurate ROI in terms of “gravitas” within high tech, is going to be disappointed. Rice’s reputation is at least equivalent to Columbia’s in CS. Caltech is unique, for sure, both as an undergrad experience and in terms of its reputation; but a person should choose it for “fit” - it’s being the kind of person who will particularly thrive there that is important, not having a Caltech degree vs. a Rice degree on one’s resume. Rice’s “brand” is nothing to sneeze at either, especially in tech, and it’s getting more competitive every year. I don’t think my Rice '17 grad would get in today. Getting Big Merit from Rice is also a resume-worthy accomplishment that will set an applicant apart.
There are definitely people who would relish everything about Caltech, and not feel the same resonance with Rice. I would venture, though, that such a person would most likely have cut Columbia from consideration before even posting. The fact that OP’s daughter finds all three of these schools appealing suggests to me that Rice offers the best constellation of attractive attributes, PLUS $100K+ to invest for her future.
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Thank you all for responding with lots of valuable information and helping us make decisions.
Our DD just committed to Rice!
After a visit to Rice last Saturday, she was very confident in making the decision where she would want to spend the next 4 years of college. She had such a positive impression of the school. She thinks the campus was one of the most beautiful campuses she visited and people were friendly. She sees herself thrive there.
We heard back from Columbia Financial Aid with COA $22,000/yr. Even though it was so much cheaper than Caltech’s COA $36,000/yr, it was hard to pass Rice’s Full-ride with Trustee scholarship.
Putting prestige and finance aside, she thinks Rice will fit her the most and she will be happy attending Rice.
Thanks again!
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Congratulations! Welcome to Rice.
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Congratulations to your daughter, @ninjadad! Excellent choice! My daughter is finishing her sophomore year at Rice in Mechanical Engineering. We have been very impressed with all things Rice!
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Columbia does not grant credit for college classes taken during high school. So those 60 credits she took would not count for anything. But they do accept credit for APs.
We understand it is hard to transfer college credits to Columbia (any credits above high school requirements). We have a prior example of a student from the same school with our D attending Columbia, and we were told that in his case, he had to take Calc III at Columbia with A or B grade to get his prior Calc II and I credits from D’s school accepted afterwards. As such, it’s not as clear cut, but it appears possible in some rare instances.
Yes I’ve heard the same thing. They do award credit in rare circumstances. Students who transfer in during sophomore or junior year are given more flexibility. But for new freshman its very difficult.
Congratulations on your decision, Ninjadad. My DD is just finishing her freshman year there and loves it even with Covid restrictions and inconveniences this year. She too turned down some big names to go there and has no regrets. Best wishes for a great education and a wonderful 4 years.
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Worth keeping an eye on this exchange program at Rice. It’s a full year but a great opportunity to immerse yourself at a much deeper level than most single semester JYA programs:
https://ccl.rice.edu/abraham-broad-exchange-program
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This exchange program at Cambridge sounds interesting. What are its benefits that would make it more attractive than other full year exchange programs?
Thanks in advance for your reply.
If finances weren’t a factor, I would agree with Cal Tech, the grads have a spot pretty much wherever they want to go, silicon valley or outside of sv or grad school. However it’s tough to turn down a full ride or partial ride.
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I’m only speaking for Cambridge (though I think Oxford is similar), but there are plenty of seats in one semester commercially arranged study abroad programs at Cambridge. Those are generally seen as money-making activities run by the poorer colleges. More particularly, the Americans generally spend their time together as a group, with organized activities and special classes.
In contrast this is at Trinity (the richest college that doesn’t need to stoop to money grubbing) and would involve immersion into the full U.K. experience and a year of a course that a British undergraduate would take (typically in their second year of three). That experience may not suit everyone but is hard to find at Cambridge - you would feel much more like a full member of college (so much so that one of the people who came from Rice, Bruce Dunlevie, donated a bunch of money to Trinity a few years ago).
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Thank you so much for the explanation. Very helpful. Much appreciated.
I can’t disagree. This is the kind of event that families both love and hate. We had a similar situation in our house. Finances are always a consideration, we have three kids (all that were in their undergraduate programs at the same time), but we are not at an income level where there were any expectations of a free ride.
Well, low and behold, middle D got into all of her UC choices with one giving a full ride + research grants. It was nuts around here. Ultimately she didn’t choose it - and went to UCB (can’t fault her for that).
Students get out of their programs what they put in - Data Structures at Rice is the same as Data Structures at Caltech. As is C++, algorithms, etc. What they learn is much more about who they are than their schools.
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