<p>I also believe there is a difference between schools in their level of intellectualism (I should be able to spell if I am going to join this conversation). To me the big sell of top tier schools is not the classes themselves but the student body ... hopefully a higher percentage of kids truly interested in learning, discussing, and arguing intellectual topics. Can these kids be found at all schools? Sure. I believe more can be found at top tier schools (LAC, private, or public). And among those top tier schools the schools definitely have different cultures ... which is why I'm a huge advocate of campus visits that involve a mid-week overnight stays in a dorm. For example, MIT has very different feel than Stanford and they are both TERRIFIC schools ... each with their own version of an intellectual student body.</p>
<p>HImom, our sons sound a lot alike! Same interest in current events, politics, definitely intellectual minded. Writing letters to the editor at 11, first to know and have opinions about court nominees, gubernatorial candidates, knows who's up for relection in coming years in the US Senate, Congress, and how the outcomes might affect the red/blue state balance, etc... </p>
<p>He wanted an intellectual university near a big city, declined to apply to LACs not because of the intellectual atmosphere but on the basis of size mostly (and often their more remote locations). He applied to U Chicago, Berkeley, George Washington, Davis, Harvard, Yale, thinking that he could find intellectual conversations (especially having to do with politics) at any of them. He is extremely happy to be at Berkeley. Good luck!</p>
<p>Thanks for all your suggestions & food for thought. Some of the same names keep coming up & yes, I'll have to impress upon son that HE needs to seek out like-minded folks. Welcome additional suggestions and am pleased to read of the diverse experiences and perspectives. Son has "blended in" wherever he finds himself, but thought it would be nice to go somewhere where there is a higher proportion of folks like him who love current events and discussing them. (Yes, he's also well versed in what's happening in the sports world & making "small talk.")</p>
<p>I think there are a lot of kids in his school (& many others schools) that get into "top tier schools," though they are more into memorizing than trying to focus on the "big picture." Heck, they are the ones with great grades & test scores, why wouldn't they get chosen by numbers'driven schools?</p>
<p>Anyway, keep those insights coming, please!</p>
<p>Consider the core curriculum schools. I believe they are typically chosen by very intellectual kids. Some have been mantioned already (U Chicago, Reed...) but I'd add Columbia & St John's.</p>
<p>OTOH, some alternative schools (like Deep Springs, Marlboro, & Hampshire) attract intellectuals too.</p>
<p>My son will be attending UChicago in the fall - one of his likely-admit schools was Allegheny College. Not typically on the CC radar screen, but with a large percentage of thoughtful kids that are interested in ideas. Brandeis was also on his list - very interesting place.</p>
<p>I was just going to suggest looking at the Core Curriculum at Columbia:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.college.columbia.edu/core/classes/%5B/url%5D">http://www.college.columbia.edu/core/classes/</a> </p>
<p>It was what made my S decide it's where he wanted to be, and might be what your S is looking for.</p>
<p>Sure, there are intellecutal kids everywhere, but there is a big difference between the academic climate of different colleges. Take it from me: I went to Reed, UCSB, and The University of Kansas! I had great classes and met bright people at all three schools, but the general culture at Reed was much more academic and intellectual. That was the culture of the place--not better or worse, just different.</p>
<p>but only KU has men's basketball and AFH:)</p>
<p>ohio-mom,
My nephew is a freshman at Allegheny this year, and I am glad to hear that you have a good opinion of it.</p>
<p>condor30,</p>
<p>Actually, Reed does have men's basketball, but let's just say that they're not about to play the Jayhawks anytime soon. And if they ever do, they'll have to find uniforms that match --and that are less than thirty years old.</p>
<p>I went to Williams, Oxford, and the University of Chicago, and the students were smartest (and most intellectual) at....my high school (Stuyvesant). (Actually, by quite some distance. ;))</p>
<p>Well, duh. (as my "intellectual" kids would say.)</p>
<p>Reed, Haverford, and Swarthmore come immediately to mind. So does Bryn Mawr but hey, wrong sex!</p>
<p>Swat, Oberlin, Grinnell, Chicago, St John, Reed. I think you'll also find a lot of politically active kids (or enough to find pals) at certain large state schools with a history of activism - such as Michigan and UC-Berkeley.</p>
<p>Yes, it is true that at many schools one can find pockets of intellectuals, as a few have pointed out. However, at some of these same schools, the intellectuals suffer from a degree of isolation, as their values are somewhat different from the mainstream concerns of the student body (frats, beer, sports, for example).</p>
<p>Do not forget that, while the intellectual CALIBER of students at two campuses may compare, the campus culture could be completely different. And this could have a huge impact on the happiness of a particular student.</p>
<p>Perhaps rather than focus on a vague sense of intellectualism, it might be helpful to focus on other issues that distinguish among campuses, as others have hinted at:</p>
<ul>
<li> big time sports or not?</li>
<li> big time greek or not?</li>
<li> city, suburban, rural?</li>
<li> size?</li>
<li> pre-professional focus?</li>
<li> party atmosphere?</li>
<li> etc.</li>
</ul>
<p>intellectuals can be found in any setting. BUT, if "your" intellectual loves big time sports, she/he will not be as happy at a reed as at U of M honors. etc.</p>
<p>True, true. But if your "intellectual" child loves major league sports and not mainly college sports, then s/he is going to be much happier at the University of Chicago than the University of Michigan. . . .</p>
<p>Mackinaw,</p>
<p>Precisely my point!</p>
<p>Kids vary.</p>
<p>Colleges vary.</p>
<p>Communities vary.</p>
<p>For most kids, I don't think match is really all that critical, as they just crave fitting in. But, for the kid that is confident in his/her interests, and has spent some time thinking about them, I think the risk of bad fits rises. This stuff is very personal, and difficult to judge long distance, as we all know.</p>
<p>Your son should visit St.John's - intellectual discussion is the life's blood of that place - morning, noon, and night. </p>
<p>It tends to attract highly reflective individuals who are motivated to immersing themselves in the life of the mind and who have a strong drive to "make sense of it all." Since the only degree is Liberal Arts and the entire program is focused on the history and foundations of Western thought, very few students with career-track orientations apply. It is the scholarly ones (regardless of personality - there are plenty of bouncy expressive types) who fall in love with the college. Produces lots of PhDs and college professors.</p>
<p>You might have your son do the two day visit - if it is for him, he will know right away. My son liked it alot, but thought that it didn't have enough performing arts opportunities so did not apply. However, he ended up at a small residential college (360 students) in a highly intellectual university, with many of the same elements that attracted him to St. John's.</p>
<p>[Apologies to the board for raving on about St. John's again. As I have said before, with each year that passes I value my time there more highly,and so of course I think everyone should begin higher education there. :) ]</p>
<p>newmassdad, I agree that we agree. My son ended up at Chicago but his next choice probably would have been UMich rather than the lac's he was also admitted to -- and precisely because of the sports aspect plus the larger "environment" in which to work.</p>
<p>I do think, however, that certain colleges and universities have higher proportions of "intellectuals" (a term that hasn't been well defined here, but what the heck) than others. And I pointed to Chicago, Swat, Oberlin, Reed, and Grinnell as examples of some that fit this term better than others with respect to the predominant student culture. At the same time, I'm sure that at UMich, Berkeley, UWis, UVa, UNC and other major "big time" universities there are plenty of opportunities for activist and brainiac kids to do their politics and intellectualizing (on the street, as journalists, in coffee houses, in the theaters and studios, etc.) to their heart's content. (On UWis, I did my graduate work there, and even this quintessential "party school" had and has a very substantial core of politically activist and intellectually brilliant and committed students.)</p>
<p>Thanks for these thoughts. Son is NOT attracted by lit courses, tho does like considering & discussing most other courses & subjects. He can watch sports on TV to his heart's content, so doesn't NEED to attend a school where sports is a huge draw.
We have noted that many of the schools commonly mentioned are good for lit/journalism/liberal arts. He has taken & enjoyed math & sciences more & would probably pursue engineering or at least more math & science.
Is NOT attracted by Reed & would probably like warmer weather (so likely West Coast), but not necessarily.
Your insights have been helpfufl & will continue to read & ponder.
HImom</p>