<p>I do not know where to post IB related, Our local school district will start offering IB Diploma Program next year for current sophomore high school kids. I have a D, 12, an 8th grader in middle school but has been in high school for the math (and science). D is in AP Calculus BC currently with juniors/seniors, and in biology with sophomores. As she is advanced, the school told us that its almost impossible for her to be in meaningful IB program after waiting 2 more years to get started IB. For example, not to mention that she is over-qualified in math already, although she is in a science class with current sophomores now and they can take IB science next year but she is the only one cannot from the class, because you have to be a junior. Taking IB classes while in her freshman/sophomore will not be counted for her IB diploma. </p>
<p>So IB is really not for her? Even suppose the diploma is not for her under this circumstance, can she still take individual IB classes in freshman/sophomore year for her pleasure, like IB science next year with current sophomore classmates? The school said no one would be allowed in pre-junior year, for diploma or not. Any school web info available I can use to refer to the school that she still should be allowed to take individual IB classes next year?</p>
<p>The IBO requires that courses and exams are taken junior and senior year. It’s not a school-level decision. My younger S’s IB program taught the “pre-IB” courses at the AP level but with IB-type expectations and policies, but the official courses start junior year. The only loophole here is that the school might let her take the courses, but IBO would not allow her to take the exams, but if the school’s not willing to go there…</p>
<p>My older son, who is a math/CS guy, felt IB would not work for him because he was already well ahead of level on both areas (BC Calc, etc. as a 14 yo soph). It is possible to do independent study for IB Further Math, and to have done most of the work for HL before senior year, but it would depend on whether the school has the resources to support it, and IB will not let her take an HL exam til senior year. If she’s already in BC Calc, doing well, liking it and managing the social aspects, I’d say she’s better off getting heading to a math/science magnet or local college/university once she has exhausted the HS offerings, and assuming you live in an are which offers these things. </p>
<p>Probably not what you wanted to hear…but you’re lucky that the school is acknowledging that they can’t give her what she needs instead of trying to hold her back. Feel free to PM me.</p>
<p>@ CountingDown, Thank you very much for sharing your two sons’ IB story as well as offering IB info. Unfortunately our state does not offer “math/science magnet” schools. And, we have local colleges either too expensive in tuition or they do not allow high school kids to take courses unless they are junior, with NO exception currently. Our D has been in (public) school entirely, and would like to stay… Thanks again.</p>
<p>Does your daughter’s school offer AP courses?</p>
<p>Unlike the IB program, the AP program does not require that students must be upperclassmen. If there is a rule that prohibits freshmen from taking AP courses even if they have the prerequisites, it’s the school’s rule, not a national AP rule. And school rules often can be waived.</p>
<p>As for IB, your daughter might have a more meaningful educational experience if she didn’t try for the IB diploma but instead took individual IB courses in her junior and senior years in the subject areas where she is NOT accelerated.</p>
<p>Augh. Please don’t get trailhead fever. You are blessed with a smart kid. Go read “Seabiscuit” about a talented racehorse who was fortunate to fall into the hands of a shrewd, old trainer. He knew it was easy to push a young talent too hard too fast. Too many young throughbreds end up as Alpo because they got galloped too hard too young. </p>
<p>Your D can have a fabulous IB experience. She just needs to work within the school guidelines. If they say “IB Chem is for juniors to earn credit” then she needs to take regular physics or geology or choir or pottery until she is a junior. </p>
<p>Be a whole lot more shrewd about growth here. I was advanced in grades like your girl. When others in my class were experimenting with eye shadow I was still playing (Secretly) with my Barbie. At 12, your D is young for her grade. Let her roar ahead in a topic or two but be careful about wanting your ego fed by pushing her to graduate at 15 or other silliness (not to be rude to you but there are so many parents who will do that). </p>
<p>You want her to be a proud, accomplished young woman. Don’t deny her gifts – but be wary about flooring the accelerator. Let her OWN IB when she is a junior and senior – and fill her life with wonderful learning opportunities between now and then. </p>
<p>For pete’s sake please do not hurdle her through high school and push her into college just because she can handle the academic work. That can be a very lonely path.</p>
<p>I agree with you completely, Olymom, but there may be obstacles that would prevent this young woman from doing IB on schedule.</p>
<p>For example, the school may require X number of years of science and Y number of years of math for graduation. She has to take something to fulfill that requirement. If she takes the regular courses that she’s ready for, she may not be allowed to also get credit for the IB courses that cover the same material.</p>
<p>My daughter went to the same IB program as one of CountingDown’s kids. There were some students there who were very accelerated in one or more subjects. Even though this was a large school, with many other course offerings including a full selection of APs, and 20 years of experience offering the IB program, it was very awkward to fit these kids into the IB program because of the specific requirements of IB. At a smaller school or one with fewer resources and options, or one that is new to the IB program and does not know all of its quirks (which may be true of the school the OP’s daughter attends), it might not have been possible to fit these kids into IB at all.</p>
<p>Hi Olymom, thank you for bring your point out. I do see your point. You are right, she is young for her grade already. But that is okay. We have not allowed her to skip further grades. However, perhaps her advanced course work would give her very difficult time to remain in high school for 4 years, I guess. She likes her (public) school, where she has been for her entire life. And we are trying to find ways to keep her in high school for 4 years if possible. Thats why I am here to see if IB would work for her. </p>
<p>The school does not give you credits when you do while in middle school. She is completing high school math curriculum by this year with Algebra 1 &2, Geometry, Pre-Cal, and, AP Calculus BC. But none is for her high school math graduation requirements. None will even appear in her future high school transcript, as if she has done none of those math at all. Once she is in high school next year, she still needs 3 math courses. But what math is a question to her. Take college math courses? If you are not a senior, you cannot leave high school (to take college courses in a college) school days. Even you take college math through online, its not for high school credits. They give you no credit for outside course work. So we are investigating IB option. </p>
<p>Hi Marian, thank you very much for your thoughtful advice. You are right, her school will be new to IB next year. The school will offer minimum courses, so kids have to take all. For example, the IB program in science will be very week because they will have only Physics SL and Chemistry SL. Based on this reason alone, the school is saying that the IB is not for science kids. So I am thinking that she would take both IB Physics/Chemistry SL (along with her current science class sophomore peers) next two years then move on to AP in those sciences later. </p>
<p>But school has said that, under the IB policy, she will not be allowed because no freshman/sophomore will be allowed in IB classes. My question is that, is this really IB policy? No one can take any IB individual classes before junior year? By the way, she is good in English/Social studies as well, but no students can do differently, I mean kids have to be in their grade class in those subjects unlike math.</p>
<p>The IB diploma program is designed as a two-year program. You have to take everything that’s IB during those two years, which are grades 11 and 12 in the United States and grades 12 and 13 in some other countries.</p>
<p>This is only the beginning of the restrictions. There are a LOT of rules about when you can take what. For examples, there are two levels of exams – higher level (HL) and standard level (SL). Students must take at least 3 but no more than 4 HL exams. They cannot take HL exams in their first year in IB. They can take up to 2 exams in their first year, but they must be SL exams.</p>
<p>Your school may impose additional restrictions because of the need to mesh IB requirements with state-mandated graduation requirements. For example, at my daughter’s school, two of the student’s three or four HL courses had to be English and History – this was done for reasons having to do with state graduation requirements.</p>
<p>One more point: If I say that IB is not for math- and science-oriented kids, about a hundred people will disagree with me within the next 15 minutes. But I think it’s fair to say that the IB program, as implemented in some U.S. high schools, is less suited to the academic interests and priorities of math/science-focused students than students who have more diverse interests or a stronger focus on the humanities and social sciences. Your daughter’s school may be one of those that implements the IB program in this way.</p>
<p>Marian is correct – this is IBO policy. Your D’s school is clearly going to have to make some exceptions to policy in order for your D to take math courses in HS. Personally, I would prefer online accelerated math courses at the HS to sending a 12-13 yo to the local college – assuming your D does well-with self-teaching and that there is someone who can help her with questions and/or direct instruction. (How to handle the acceleration issue while keeping S1 with his agemates was a major consideration in where he attended HS. We were lucky that the program he attended offered lots of post-AP math, physics and CS. Private schools are not necessarily better than public in this regard.)</p>
<p>Physics SL is akin to AP Physics B (non-calc based). A student I mentored through the app process (a stellar IB student) who had Physics SL is now at a top engineering program and finding the lack of calc-based physics to be an issue. Just so you know, most colleges do not give credit for SL exams (foreign language exams being the major exception). My IB student wound up taking the corresponding AP exams in addition to the SL exams to ensure placement/credit.</p>
<p>Will the HS let your D take AP science courses in 9th and 10th grades? If so, that gets her the challenge she wants, but the IB courses would then be fairly duplicative. I would go with AP courses and advanced work in the areas where she is accelerated, and IB courses in the social sciences/English/foreign language when she’s a junior/senior.</p>
<p>I agree with Marian that in our experience, IB was a better fit for a English/humanities oriented kid than someone who has significant subject acceleration in math/science. My IB student is also a bio/life sciences guy, and had the option to attend the same math/science program as his brother. He ultimately chose the IB because of the terrific social sciences teachers. The IB life sciences (Bio and Enviro) worked out fine for him, but the physical sciences/math kids found their curriculum a bit more lacking.</p>
<p>BTW – if you want colleges to see your D’s AP BC Calc score, you will need to contact College Board <em>this spring</em> to make sure they carry those scores forward. My understanding is that CB now wipes out pre-9th grade scores unless specific arrangements are made. Ditto if she takes any SAT-IIs before 9th grade.</p>
<p>There can be some creative approaches. Do check with the high school again and see if she can get any credit for anything that she is doing this year (sometimes a different staff member has a different answer . . . so, if you got a “No” from Ms. Jones, be a confused parent who calls Ms. Smith and asks for clarification . . . ). </p>
<p>Also, check with the district staff. It gets sticky because you don’t want to look like you are wearing tread marks up someone’s backside – but district or state staff may be aware of how other similar kids have been handled (ie, acquainted with the bigger pond). </p>
<p>I DO agree that IB is a well rounded program and the foreign language/history aspects may not be for everyone. Still, it can be a good challenge for the highly capable math student to branch out into other fields – it can keep the bright kid from becoming snotty if she/he realizes that the easy A in math doesn’t translate into an easy A in third year French. </p>
<p>Again, policies need to be researched – and if you find that it is the school’s policy to restrict IB to juniors and seniors, do take a moment and think carefully before pushing for an exception. I was accelerated one year and I managed. There was a little 12 year old taking sophomore classes when I was in high school. She wore a cute plaid skirt and white Peter Pan shirts to class (in a time of mini skirts and tall boots). She was . . .a baby in looks and absolutely no one spoke to her unless they had to. It would not have killed me to be nice to her but I did what everyone else did: stayed away from the “weirdo.”</p>
<p>With our own S, we supported him as he worked two years ahead in math – but kept him with his age group for 3/4 of the day. He has strong friendships that are still on going. </p>
<p>So, keep researching – and do look at the very important social aspects of middle school/high school life.</p>
<p>I would also add that it can be challenging, at least at some IB schools, for a student with a career interest in the physical sciences or engineering to learn enough about these subjects to score well on the SAT Subject Tests in chemistry or physics, which some colleges require for students who plan to major in these subjects (especially engineering). The IB courses are not an especially close match for the curriculum assumed on the SAT Subject Tests, and the need to take a lot of IB courses in grade 12 means that students may not be able to take the IB courses in these subjects early enough to prepare for the SAT Subject Tests. Thus, substantial self-study may be needed.</p>
<p>At the IB school that CountingDown and I are talking about, some kids solved this problem by taking AP Chemistry as an elective during junior year, on top of a full IB program, and then taking the SAT Subject Test in chemistry at the end of that year. But obviously, this sort of thing is not for everyone.</p>
<p>One thing about IB is that it’s not just the exam at the end of the year, like AP is. IB has required assessments during the year, too. </p>
<p>If you need suggestions for places that offer online math classes past Calc BC, then PM me. I have a list of places we looked at.</p>
<p>AP Statistics is another way to take a break for a year while waiting to take the IB class.</p>
<p>Also, you might see if your school would give credit for Art of Problem Solving classes if she hasn’t already taken Number Theory and/or Counting & Probability.</p>
<p>You might also ask your school what math course(s) they intend to offer. Is it Math Studies or Math SL or Math HL? It sounds like Math HL would suit her best. Sitting and waiting for 2 years may not be worth it if she’s waiting for Math Studies.</p>
<p>S2 was the only soph in the AP/IB Enviro class, but it was the only time he was going to be able to take that elective. At his school, AP/IB Enviro was taught as a combined course, but because S was a soph, he could not register for it as IB. </p>
<p>The person I mentored did not perform as well on the SAT-II Physics compared to the other SAT-IIs this student took. SL Physics at S2’s HS was taught over two years, meaning that students taking the SAT-II would not have covered all the material by the fall of senior year deadline for testing. Self-studying physics while in this full IB program is definitely not recommended. Consensus among classmates is that the SL Physics did not tie well to AP/SAT-II, but that the pre-IB Bio, as taught at S2’s school, did.</p>
<p>We asked S1 on a few occasions if he wanted to take classes at the local flagship, since it was not far away, we knew several of his friends who did so, and the school was great in working with younger students. Every time, he said he didn’t want to sacrifice his ECs
and unique HS courses for the trip back and forth to the college. That was TOTALLY fine with us. He wanted to have a social life. We strongly encouraged this.</p>
<p>BTW, our local flagship has a policy of not letting HS kids take courses before junior year, but they make exceptions regularly. </p>
<p>Even if the high school will not grant credit for HS math taken in middle school, you may want to ask if it can still be reflected on her transcript.</p>
<p>Hi mathinokc, thank you for asking if our school would offer credits for works done out of high school. No, they dont. So if my D takes college math courses at post-AP Calculus BC level in the future, its based on over-loading class after full day in school, and it would be just for her pleasure, not for high school required math credits. They do not have math at post- Calculus BC. I guess, the school is counting on her to go to college early.</p>
<p>Hi CountingDown, Marian, and Olymom !!<br>
Thank you so much again!!! You have been extremely helpful. Because of you, I am now having lots of understanding on IB, and my D will be able to see whether the IB is an option for her. Thank you for bring your insightful issue on SAT II subject science tests. As you, CountingDown, mentioned, we would like to see whether her taking AP Physics, AP Chemistry in her freshman/sophomore respectively would be possible, before being allowed to get started IB in junior. Again, thank you ALL!!!</p>
<p>Please think this through on many levels. She will be a freshmen girl taking AP Physics . . . with junior and senior boys. Is she ok with that? Absolutely thrilled with that? How are you and Dad with that scenario? Are you sure, sure, sure that next year isn’t the year to explore the arts? School newspaper? Debate class? There are lots of exciting avenues out there – including some where she won’t be sharing a lab bench with someone a lot more advanced in . . . biology . . . than she is.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be in a rush to get too far ahead in math. If she does IB HL math (2 year sequence) junior and senior year, that should be plenty. </p>
<p>To the middle school parents that may be reading this, welcome opportunities to expand breadth of learning instead of just acceleration. Yes, that may be tough depending on school offerings etc. But if you can avoid super-acceleration in class, do so. Maybe the kid could keep challenged learning computer programming or something independently.</p>
Thrilled??? I wonder what you meant by that. As an 8th, she is currently in AP Calculus BC where most kids are senior boys. By the way, next years juniors/seniors are younger than current seniors in her Calculus class. Besides, next year’s juniors are current sophomores and she is with them in her Biology class now. So I wonder why she should feel thrilled when its not new things to her? I was basically trying to give some thought on CountingDowns advice, Will the HS let your D take AP science courses in 9th and 10th grades?. I thought CountingDowns advice was quite thoughtful under the circumstance that her school will offer only two IB science at SL (, not in HL). By the way, do you think only easy and under leveled courses can serve this girl meaningfully? Taking Physics is something to do with losing opportunity to do like School newspaper or Debate class as you mentioned?</p>
<p>colorado_mom, Thanks, She is completing available high school math courses by this year. The school does not have post- AP Calculus BC, so rush in math is not there.</p>
<p>Dear Olymom, you asked Are you sure, sure, sure that next year isn’t the year to explore the arts? School newspaper? Debate class?, Would you explain that why Arts is mentioned here? Kids are required to take courses in math, science, English, social study each year. So, her taking required science course is something to do with preventing her from doing arts? Your thought is really weird to me honestly.</p>
<p>“Colorado_mom, Thanks, She is completing available high school math courses by this year. The school does not have post- AP Calculus BC, so “rush” in math is not there.”</p>
<p>Sorry if I skimmed too fast. The advise stands though for other families with younger students trying to decide whether to super-accelerate. I’ve seen families jump through hoops to carpool their bright middle schoolers to the hs for advanced math. Then they are in a quandary because it does not count toward the 4 years required math in hs (I think that rule is unfair). </p>
<p>It is a crime for a kid to be bored in math class. But my opinion is that it is better to do so in middle school than in high school.</p>