<p>Is the OP the mom or the dad? Unfortunate is it might be, the teachers and/or the school district may be more likely to respond to the father.</p>
<p>@post 19:
This sounds like yet another case of the school district screwing gifted kids…</p>
<p>I did not have a chance to read the entire thread, but the title caught my eye. If your child is a very strong math student, go full force and fight it, especially if there is lack of transparency. This thread caught my eye, though, because I have a 12th grader who is on the verge of failing Calculus. She was never a strong math student, but is a hard worker. Her school does not have any math that is not an AP beyond precalculus, so for students who need deepening or strengthening of their math knowledge, or even a lateral move to another math topic at a similar level for grade 12, there is no option. And, there is a district policy that classes may be dropped at semester with special release, but regardless of the grade the student was earning at semester, an F grade will show on the transcript. So, if I look back, I wish someone had counseled her to retake Algebra I in the 9th grade. Also, because of the situation my kid is in, I have read a bunch of stuff (not an expert, but trying to get insight beyond my n of 1 situation) about math in college, math readiness, etc. It seems that having strong grades through Algebra II is as strong or stronger a predictor of readiness for college level mathematics than proceeding through a higher level. There is a bit of a confound in that kids with stronger math interests and stronger aptitudes tend to proceed further. Also, there are studies by universities about reengaging students who completed calc in high school with mathematics, that many want very little to do with math after that point, to the chagrin of the universities. So, know that it can be a double-edges sword if your child’s readiness is questionable to move the child forward only so that kid can do calculus in high school. I would push to have that child extremely solid in pre-algebra, algebra, and geometry. It may be relatively easier for a kid to do Algebra ii as a summer class and then move forward if he wants a chance to accelerate within the curriculum. Again, don’t hold an extremely talented and math oriented kid back due to an institutional decision, but if they are a good but not great math student, there is time later to accelerate if the child is interested and as general tendency to do well in math becomes clearer. This would be, for instance, the student who worked hard for B+s and A-s in pre-Algebra, but then seems to pull solid As with work, but not excess duress in Algebra and Geometry. This would seem to be a kid who might want to move forward with summer school or summer online class. If the child continues to have to work very hard for A-/B+ or even Bs/B-s, then it might behoove the student to stay at the pace that they are at. Best of luck with your decision, and know that faster is not always better (might be for your kiddo…)</p>
<p>If your child will eventually attend the school I’m at right now (Mission San Jose High School), as I’m suspecting, then no worries. He’ll be able to take calculus as a senior. He could also self-study for the AP Calc BC exam and, with a passing score, test into Multivariable Calculus, as I did. (I don’t know if this will work when your child enters high school, though.) The school’s administration seems to be getting more flexible regarding skipping math classes, but I don’t know if this will change for the worse in the future.</p>
<p>Of course, there are equally competitive school districts out there, so in that case, you should definitely go talk to higher-level administrators. If that doesn’t work, then your son should take math outside of school through college classes or programs like EPGY, CTY, and especially Art of Problem Solving (which does a great job of really challenging top math students). He could take calculus at a local college, or he could self-study for AP Calculus BC. With a 5 on the AP exam (which shouldn’t be too difficult, considering he seems a lot smarter than I was in 6th grade), he should be able to take courses beyond calculus at local colleges (i.e. multivariable calculus, linear algebra, differential equations).</p>
<p>OP, </p>
<p>Likely the scores were only one factor, and it is also likely that the reason for the lack of transparency is that there is a privacy issue with the other students. We, as teachers, need to be very careful not to share information which could be attributed to other, identifiable students. The students who did place in the class are easily identifiable, so that if scores are shared to prove why there was not room for your child in the class, that would mean divulging information about those who are in the class. You will not receive a numerical breakdown of the scores of others, or the be otherwise able to compare your child’s score to the others. Therefore, knowing your child’s score is really immaterial, since you do not (and likely will never) know the scores of the other students who did place in the class. </p>
<p>So, if you did receive the placement test score information, what would be your next question? Why did this score not qualify my child? And there is no way for them to quantify any more than they have. Perhaps the other kids had a lucky pencil that day. I don’t know. I would play it thusly: “Man, you are going to rule math this year!” especially since he is obviously engaged in many math activities anyway. </p>
<p>And as was noted above, he will meet up with those kids again, when they retake classes later on. </p>
<p>So go ahead, ask, fight, even go to the superintendent if you wish (they really know nothing about this, the district curriculum department might be a better place, after the building administrator) but think about what you are telling your kid by all of this. It could be “I believe in your abilities and will fight to preserve your options” but it could also be “You can’t earn a place in this class on your own merits, so I will fight you in.”</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
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<p>They could tell the OP what her daughter’s score was and what the cut-off was. It’s possible that they didn’t actually use the score to determine everyone in the class; perhaps some people who did worse than the OP’s daughter were put in because of connections to the school district. I’ve seen this happen.</p>
<p>The cut-off score can be totally arbitrary. My son had the score higher than the cut-off score but the district did not place him in algebra in 6th grade. He had one perfect score on one problem and a little bit less than 50% on the other problem. They wanted him to have at least 50% on each problem. He was bored in 7th grade and the teacher let him learn algebra and geometry in one year by himself.</p>
<p>Wow ok it seems your son deserves a spot there. I encourage you to go to the highest level necessary to find the results of his placement test. It’s possible he was having a bad day and didn’t do well but then again you have a right to know.</p>
<p>Can 6th Grade placement hurt chances for access to HS Calculus/Pre-Calculus? Sure. Will it? Hard to say. I can say that it’s easier to stay “on track” for HS Advanced Math than it is to jump to advanced track from the rudimentary math queue.</p>
<p>We had no trouble keeping our D’s on track in their non-academic middle school. The problem was when they switched to competitive academic high schools for 9th Grade. In one case the HS insisted our D retake Algebra 1 … a course she’d just gotten an A in in 8th Grade. We asked “How do we get our D to pre-Calculus as a Senior?” and got the old academic song and dance “Well over the years we’ve probably had two or three students who did that.” (I’ll spare you the details. Suffice to say that making the effort to pass Algebra 2 would have been much MUCH easier.) We made a compelling case for D being placed in Algebra 2, and she did fine in the course. But we definitely burned some bridges accomplishing that. YMMV.</p>
<p>Contiue to talk with your GC and also go to the District, if you have to. And take a look at the HS handbook for the math curriculum. My S took general math in 6th grade, as that was all that was taught at his school. That summer we moved to another school district and he was placed in Algebra I from test scores for 7th grade. Not a problem.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus My S’s HS is small, only about 130 students. I recently asked his math teacher why there was no option to take BC as a junior, only AB. He said only 10% of the advanced students would be ready for BC as a junior. He also pointed out that many area schools, even large ones, only offer AB. You have a point that these students start out 2 years ahead and end up one year ahead. Teacher didn’t really have an answer for that. Said sophomore year math would have to change in order to offer AB/BC option junior year. My S is not going into math or engineering, so not as much of an issue for him and he is a senior now. Would be nice to have a more uniform curriculum across the board, but extremely difficult to achieve.</p>
<p>My oldest son was “on the cusp” for acceleration in math going into middle school. I gave permission for him to accelerate and it was a decision I’ve regretted to this day. His apparent ease and comfort with elementary math just didn’t prove out as his intellectual powers matured through the years. I would just say don’t be so “certain” that he will be bored out of his mind. It’s difficult for parents to objectively evaluate their own kids. Kids can get to calculus by starting Algebra even in 8th grade. Fight it if you wish and you might get your wish, but go in with your eyes wide open…there’s a world of difference between a 9 year old and a 15 year old and the synapses that fire in the brain.</p>
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<p>I strongly disagree. (Such an argument is why the education get little respect.) Either the math department/district has a policy for acceleration (or it does not). If it does have a policy, it should be transparent at a public school (privates can do what they want). If the cutoff is 70%, for example, there is zero reason not to tell the parents that there kid scored 65%. Zero. If the kid made the cutoff, but doesn’t do any HW and in the teacher’s opinion, is ‘not ready to advance’, that too should be shared with the parent.</p>
<p>In our district, one has to appeal to the Math Curriculum guru, who will support the teacher’s rec at first but then tell the parents that they have the right to allow their kid to fail. In other words, ‘we strongly recommend against acceleration, but if you wish to do so, you may, but your child may end up struggling. Your choice.’</p>
<p>OhioMom:</p>
<p>You answered your own thought in the first sentence, “M S’s HS is small.” In essence, they choose to offer AB and then BC, instead of BC alone due their budget.</p>
<p>Let him take AP Stats instead.</p>
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<p>Wouldn’t this imply that 90% of the two year ahead students were “pushed” ahead of their preparation and ability, so that slow pacing calculus is done to accommodate them at the expense of the 10% who are two years ahead because they really are that good at math (and could easily handle normal college pace calculus)?</p>
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<p>At our HS, the advanced math students take AP Stats in addition to Honors PreCalc/Calc BC (AB is not offered). For advanced math students, Stats is not difficult (since it is only Algebra-based).</p>
<p>^^ I don’t know if that is the case or if it is the curriculum.</p>
<p>This has been my S’s math track:</p>
<p>7th: Algebra I
8th: Geometry
9th: Honors Algebra II
10th: Honors Trigonometry/Honors Analytic Geometry
11th; AP Calc AB (got a 5)
12th: AP Calc BC (current) </p>
<p>The teacher basically said the 10th grade math they offer does not prepare the students for BC. I suppose the 10% are the exceptionally gifted math students. There is not a class called “pre-calc”. Is “pre-calc” what we offer in 10th or are they missing something? </p>
<p>I do not think my S was pushed. He gets mostly As and has always scored very high on all standardized math tests, top 1% to 2%.</p>
<p>It is a small district, but a very good one, nonetheless. I should have added there are 130 students in his grade, not the entire school. I understand there are still budget restrictions.</p>
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<p>And if those kids can do the work–which I bet they, and many more who aren’t being given the opportunity can–what the school needs to do is have MORE SECTIONS of advanced math, not engage in artificial cutoffs.</p>
<p>It would be nice if public school districts could offer as many sections at as many levels as needed from year to year based on fluctuation in abilities of the student cohort. But they can’t because they don’t have the staffing or the money, and the law requires them to concentrate special funding on lower-performing students rather than kids who aren’t challenged enough. It’s a very unfortunate situation.</p>
<p>OP: I am probably one of the older parents on this board. My children are all in their mid 20’s in graduate school. I think I understand what you are encountering.</p>
<p>Your options as I see it:
- accept the fact that you will need to be your child’s advocate to ensure an appropriate educational experience. Insist you see the placement results. Politely and calmly take it up the ladder, rung by rung, until you have success. Do this every time there is an issue. With any luck, the school will decide pretty quickly it is easier to just allow you to plan your child’s curriculum.</p>
<p>2)Allow your child to continue in the math course at school where he was placed, but arrange for appropriate math instruction outside of school and at some point (maybe right before HS?) have him tested by an outside entity and based on those scores insist he be admitted into the highest math tract.</p>
<p>3) If it works for your family, since not much positive or productive is happening either academically or socially in middle school (imho) homeschooling for that period of time may actually be easier than dealing with the school.</p>
<p>3) Private school?</p>
<p>4) Accept the status quo and let the school determine what your child’s educational opportunities will be.</p>
<p>Good Luck!</p>
<p>I think the OP is absolutely entitled to know her son’s score and if the decision included both a teacher recommendation and a particular score or if it was entirely score based. Unfortunately these placements tests generally are that moment in time if there is not a teacher recommendation component. I think the OP is entitled to more information from the school if he was at the cusp or if there was a lack of a necessary recommendation. It seems odd that if this kid is a “mathy” kid enough that he actually enjoys elementary school math competitions that they have hit this bump in the road. Although alot of kids are “good at math” in elementary school but don’t follow that trend as years go on. Remember this conversation is about an 11 year old not a high school student. More conversation with the school seems prudent to illuminate what is going on. It’s a long haul from 6th grade to HS graduation and it’s much easier to work with a school system if there is a open and honest dialogue on both sides.</p>