<p>Even if FAFSA and the IRS is linked, if they are claiming separation, then the dad’s income isn’t included…even if they filed taxes together last year.</p>
<p>*you mention that two kids are in college which would mean ONE is already a college student. Does that OLDER student have his/her PIN? If they took the Stafford loan, they would need that *</p>
<p>This is the older child. This last year was the first year the dad filed FAFSA. He claims that he did it because he now had 2 in school and wanted to qualify for aid. </p>
<p>Yes…dad did PINs, MPNs, everything. Yes, since everything is electronic these days, no one really knows who is punching in the info anymore. </p>
<p>She’s going to try to retrieve her PIN to see what’s there. She doesn’t want to get her dad into trouble, so she may leave last semester as it is, but decline Pell for this Spring semester. And, then tell her dad to never submit FAFSA again.</p>
<p>She gets no other aid except a merit scholarship…which isn’t FAFSA related. </p>
<p>Honestly…if it turns out that he did claim “separation”, it just shows how easy it is to do that and get lots of money if one parent hardly makes anything. Ugh! It’s really hard to prove that someone isn’t really separated.</p>
<p>AND…what’s the deal with this situation. Say a couple separates over Christmas, and then later files FAFSA in the Spring as separated. The child qualifies for Pell based on mom’s low income. School starts in the fall but the couple reconciled over the summer. That student gets to keep the Pell grant, right? Crazy.</p>
<p>I think you should have to be divorced to only use one income.</p>
<p>She probably will not be able to decline Pell without explaining why. Pell is an entitlement, and the school will get fined if they didn’t pay & get caught (Pell is audited annually).</p>
<p>It’s actually not that easy to claim separated (if verified) — schools will ask for proof of separate addresses & bill payments at that address. I will admit, though, that parents are able to pull it off. Where there is a will to cheat, the liars among us will find a way.</p>
<p>schools will ask for proof of separate addresses & bill payments at that address. I will admit, though, that parents are able to pull it off. Where there is a will to cheat, the liars among us will find a way.</p>
<p>Yes, it’s not hard to have a bill put in your name. If this dad did claim separated, then he likely had his widowed mom’s utility bills put in his name. Or could be having a Visa bill or whatever send to her address. </p>
<p>It just doesn’t look like it’s that hard to pretend to be separated if you have family/friends who will allow you to pretend to be living there. It’s not like school officials are doing “bed checks” at night. </p>
<p>I think the people should have to be divorced or at least legally separated. </p>
<p>Good to know about the Pell issue.</p>
<p>GT…I agree…both parents’ incomes should be used…always.</p>
<p>Her dad had indicated that she had “dependents”, which gave her independent status and the zero EFC. The dad says that he thought it was asking if HE and his WIFE have dependents (assuming that he did this in error.)</p>
<p>What I don’t understand is why it still took her parents info? </p>
<p>also, it’s odd that FAFSA doesn’t require that a person include the SSN numbers of dependents. If that had happened, the error would have been caught. If FAFSA had asked for SSNs then the dad would have put in his 3 kids’ SSNs, including this student’s!! Then the error would have been caught. </p>
<p>So, now they’ll pay back the Pell that they got last semester. Don’t know if there’s any other penalty or whatever.</p>
<p>“Her dad had indicated that she had “dependents”, which gave her independent status and the zero EFC. The dad says that he thought it was asking if HE and his WIFE have dependents”</p>
<p>O.M.G! This is exactly the kind of stunt Happydad (not an engineer but rather a Ph.D. Biochemist) would be guilty of if he tried to complete the FAFSA. I can absolutely believe that this is what happened.</p>
<p>*O.M.G! This is exactly the kind of stunt Happydad (not an engineer but rather a Ph.D. Biochemist) would be guilty of if he tried to complete the FAFSA. I can absolutely believe that this is what happened. *</p>
<p>Well, since this can easily happen and probably does, I would think FAFSA would be set up in a way that when asked if the student has dependents, it would then ask, what the SSNs are…that would catch the mistake.</p>
<p>Thumper, yes, he put in the parent info…which is odd since I didn’t think you could once the student go the independent status from having a child.</p>
<p>Another flaw in the system…
I thought the student has to be be supporting the child, but the dad indicated that the student had zero income. so, how was the student supporting the child.</p>
<p>I can believe it also. My H is no dummy but cannot get through forms. He has forms phobia I think. I remember when we were dating and it took him 4 hours to get through a simple employment application and that was with an ink pen. Online…H would be hopeless. I could see this “dad” diving in, not reading instructions jumping around from here to there with the back button OMG…totally believable. I always though they should shade the background of the student portion a different color or use a different font color than the parent portion so you could easily grasp where you were in the form.</p>
<p>Even if he just made an honest mistake- there’s still a huge issue here. He is still committing fraud! He signed saying he was the student (because he has the pin- not the student).</p>
<p>But I expect that after his DW has slapped him upside the head for this particular dumb stunt, and has handed the PINs off to their proper owners, this family won’t find Dad messing with anyone’s paperwork for a while.</p>
<p>An independent student has the option to enter parent data, for example, law & med schools may request it in order to be eligible for institutional aid.</p>
<p>I do think that if there is a an answer that a student has “dependents,” FAFSA should immediately then ask for SSNs and maybe ages. Doing so would have immediately “caught” that the dad had inputed the student’s SSN…and then FAFSA could then ask/remind that this section is asking if the STUDENT (not the parent) has dependents. </p>
<p>I do see that this is a mistake that could easily be made and probably often does happen. So, FAFSA should have some ways to “catch” the mistake by asking for SSNs and other things.</p>
<p>*Even if he just made an honest mistake- there’s still a huge issue here. He is still committing fraud! He signed saying he was the student (because he has the pin- not the student). *</p>
<p>True…but I wouldn’t be surprised if many parents do this for innocent reasons…the person is at the computer and just creates PINs for whomever needs them. It’s kind of like all the paychecks my mom used to endorse by signing my dad’s name when she would deposit his paychecks…I doubt the bank ever saw my dad’s real signature except when he opened the acct.</p>
<p>There should be no repercussions if the family repays Pell. It was a mistake, they caught it, and they are making it right. If there were subsidized loans, though, those may need to be removed … as well as any SEOG or institutional aid that was awarded on the basis of the original EFC.</p>
<p>The parent info can be included … it just doesn’t have to be. Sometimes colleges want that info for their own purposes, so it is accepted. It just won’t ever be counted in the EFC calculation (not allowed by regs).</p>
<p>As for the independent due to dependents thing … this will often spark selection for verification, in which case the school would have requested proof that the student supported the child at least 50% (by the way, the support, by regs, can include child support paid the the student - of course, that would also have to be listed as untaxed income - and federal aid. Many students support their kids through WIC, housing subsidies, and student loans - often these are older, returning adults but not always). Verification is not always triggered when it probably should be. Schools frankly have no way of screening for this type of thing if they get a ton of aid applications - although we had some reports we ran ourselves to screen & select for this type of issue. School aid offices are generally understaffed enough, though, that they don’t go looking for trouble. In my experience, though, schools with really good aid are more likely to be on the look out for issues like this - not that any school would ignore it if they were aware.</p>
<p>*But you said that he’s signing the loans for his child too- that’s quite another story. *</p>
<p>*There should be no repercussions if the family repays Pell. It was a mistake, they caught it, and they are making it right. *</p>
<p>Thankfully, there are no loans involved…just the Pell. </p>
<p>Good…they are going to do that. :)</p>
<p>*As for the independent due to dependents thing … this will often spark selection for verification, in which case the school would have requested proof that the student supported the child at least 50% (by the way, the support, by regs, can include child support paid the the student - of course, that would also have to be listed as untaxed income - and federal aid. Many students support their kids through WIC, housing subsidies, and student loans - often these are older, returning adults but not always). *</p>
<p>Right…but student had no income, lives in a campus dorm, and it’s silly that FAFSA wouldn’t ask for the dependent’s SSN number. That should be SOP.</p>
I’m curious - what percentage of students do you think have anything to do with filling out the FAFSA, and what percentage leave it entirely up to the parents?</p>
<p>@notrichenough- I honestly don’t know. I come from a poor area and almost every one I know fills out their own FAFSA or fills it out with a parent because parents don’t know how. </p>
<p>However, I don’t have as much of a problem with parents filling out the FAFSA as I do with other things that the pin is used for. (Although I firmly believe that students should be involved in the FAFSA because the FAFSA is being signed with THEIR pin and if something goes wrong, it can negatively affect them. Students need to be allowed to actually know what their name is being signed on IMO). However, It’s when the parents are using that PIN to sign for loans that I have a major problem. Students NEED to know what they’re getting themselves in to.</p>
<p>The first two years I completed the entire FAFSA without discussing it with the kid. She is at the local CC and we can pay entirely out of pocket. So those years really were mostly just for practice, but she would have been set up to take out a Stafford if it suddenly had become necessary.</p>
<p>This year I will have her sit with me while we complete it so that she has a better understanding about what she is facing as a transfer student. Wherever she ends up it is almost certain that she will need to borrow the Stafford maximum.</p>