Can anyone understand why I was rejected?

HI CC. First time posting here.

I applied ED to Cornell and was rejected—rejected outright, not waitlisted—in the most recent (2014-2015 school year) round of applications. I thought I had a decent shot: I have a 4.0 GPA, a 2290 on the SAT, have taken lots of AP and honors classes, and am a National Merit Finalist. I’m a section leader (this is a leadership position, not my own description) in chorus, and captain of my high school quiz bowl team. I have the requisite community service, people tell me I write well, so I expect that my essays were very good, and the faculty at my school love me, so I expect that my recommendations were also excellent. I’m also a self-taught programmer with an iOS app in the App Store (well, up until this week—but that’s another story). Oh, and my dad is an alum.

I understand that a 4.0 GPA (weighted; my school does not provide unweighted GPAs) is not necessarily good enough and that nobody’s guaranteed admission. When I received my decision, I just assumed it was bad luck.

But this week I found out that out of the 9 candidates from my school who applied—a few of whom had equivalent or possibly better qualifications than I did—1 was accepted. The trouble is, that 1 student had a 3.4 GPA (weighted), an SAT score in the 1800s, no extracurriculars other than vice-president of one school club, and no notable outside achievements.

Is there any way to rationalize this? My own inclination is to believe he got in because he’s African-American and I’m white (as were most of the qualified applicants; one was Asian), but I really don’t want to believe that. Is there any more reasonable explanation that I’m overlooking?

Fit, essays, diversity, and letters of recommendation are other areas we may not be able to assess. So often it doesn’t seem fair, and yes, race as well as other hooks (the student with the low scores may be first in their family to attend college and/or low income). So sorry. You must have some good options, though. Make the best of it…you may just fall in love with where you go and look back glad that it turned out the way it did.

It’s unknowable so to continue to beat yourself up since March 30th makes no sense. As for the black kid – he didn’t take your spot. He took the spot of another black kid who was less desirable – Yes – I’m saying schools have soft quotas set aside for sub categories. That basketball star? You weren’t competing against her – her team had slots allotted. She bumped out a less desirable hoops recruit.

That 2400 SAT Indian kid who also got rejected? The 5 other indian/Chinese/Korean 2400 SAT kids took his spot. None of those slots set aside for international apps was ever in contention for you.

Because college admissions are in no sense a meritocracy, trust me its not worth dwelling on why you weren’t accepted. There are thousands of applicants that have the qualifications to go to Cornell or any other selective school, its the admissions department’s job to thin out these students and select the ones that will best shape the class. As much as it sucks, there could have been a decision between you and someone with the exact same scores/GPA/ECs and you just didn’t get chosen for no other reason than being unlucky. It sucks, but don’t let it get you down. You make your story, not the school you went to (and from your stats I’m guessing you had some great options). Good luck, enjoy your summer, and go into next fall with a positive attitude; trust me, it will make you much better off going forward

Re: you, If that happened, perhaps you didn’t persuade them that Cornell was “the right place for your journey to begin”
http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2014/12/arts-and-sciences-reading-every-admission-application

Re: the other kid, first of all #2 above matches what I’ve read elsewhere. But besides that, were you both even applying to the same college at Cornell? Each of the colleges has its own weighting of academics and fit factors, and applicant pools.

You’re not the only one finding themselves asking these kind of questions though, for whatever consolation that provides:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/cornell-university/1760186-upsetting-and-unexpected-college-decision-p1.html

@T26E4 Oh, I know he didn’t “take my spot”. I don’t know that they even had his application in hand when they rejected me. The point is only that the standards seem to be lower.

@monydad Whether we were applying to the same colleges is a good question. I’m not sure about that, but I’m inclined to think we didn’t. And yeah, I know lots of people ask these questions.

This is helpful, thanks all. And yeah, I’m very happy with the college I’ve ended up picking. Cornell was my first choice is all, and the apparent unfairness got to me.

@DFWallace each of the 7 colleges has its own admissions process. Due to the number of applications, the college admission process had become a game of chance. Way too many qualified applications to fill not enough seats. Diversity has become a huge player in undergraduate as well as graduate (especially Medical School) admissions.
You are about to begin the next chapter of life, look ahead, not back. Have fun, study hard, make new friends, try new things, find a professor who will inspire you, fall in love, take risks and have the best 4 years of your life.

@DFWallace Lol I randomly came across this thread, and noticed as I read through it that @monydad posted a link to my thread. Hahaha!

Well, yeah if you ever wanna talk, you can PM me on CC.

Over the past few days, I have realized to not give a shit. Colleges are companies: corporations that truly seek to better their cause and purpose. Why does Harvard accept people that it deems will be future world leaders due to legacy or heritage or even some random thing they saw in their application, and not every 2400-SAT Asian kid?

It is not because the Asian kid doesn’t deserve it; he deserves it more than the students Harvard deems will be future world leaders. He probably worked harder in high school. But here is the catch. Harvard doesn’t care. If they think the less deserving individual will be a world leader, and he will have graduated from Harvard, they would rather take him than the pre-med Asian kid who’ll just become a doctor.

And it is Harvard’s right to not care. Because they’re a company. Companies want the best for themselves. If Harvard produces another president, Harvard looks even more awesome. And so for that purpose, these corporations function they way they do.

Is it fair? Hell no.
Is it the way it is? Yes.
Is it legal and by all means their right, however unfair? Yes.

It is very unmeritocratic, and that is just the nature of the system. Being Asian sucks. Being white is no help. That’s just the nature of the process. What can I say man? Best of luck whichever “corporation” you decide to attend :slight_smile:

@T26E4 You’re right about the quota system. That black kid isn’t taking away the Asian kid’s spot. But that is precisely why affirmative action is wrong. The quotas are unfair.

Why should Asian kids be held to a higher standard? Why should there be quotas, hereby boxes that segregate by race, and then have them compete with other kids of that race. Why should being Asian on average be equivalent to having 140 points knocked of your SAT?

If you can tell me, backed with extensive factual information, that the average Asian admitted does not have an average SAT or ACT or GPA or even overall application that is clearly superior than an average URM admitted, then I’ll admit the quota system is fair.

I think it’s good to have diversity. But on the other hand, it isn’t fair to all the kids who worked hard to get to the point and then are segregated by race in the admissions process.

So, in a nutshell, I think AA is unfair, but I see no other alternative to maintain diversity in colleges (which I do deem is important). Thus, I think we have no choice but to practice AA and agree with it.

I’m not saying the quota system is fair. You yourself said it – it promotes what the University desires. But fairness isn’t one of these overriding drivers, IMHO.

Let’s agree that for the non-hooked Asian and White kids pool – which I’ll call the “general” pool has an SAT avg that’s 140 pts higher than the non-athlete African American pool. What’s the spread vs. the ice hockey team? Or the women’s lacrosse team? Why only compare it with the black applicants?

Conversely, let’s look at the avg SAT of the admitted international pool. How many points are they ABOVE the “general” pool? A huge number of denied international applicant at top schools have better metrics than admitted domestic applicants. No one rallies on behalf of that FULLY DIS-ADVANTAGED sub-category. They get screwed the most.

I don’t know the answers to these SAT “spreads” – but it brings up this curiosity: if SAT averages is the sole determinant, in a “fair” solution, shouldn’t Harvard or Cornell or Stanford give up more seats to Internationals, stripping them away from Americans?

I’m sure if someone at Cornell or Emory or Holyoke or Grinnell or Yale were inclined, they could pull the “big data” from their admitted classes and analyze the heck out of it.

It’s a zero sum game – dictated by the number of beds for the freshman class. Increase one, shrink another. One can eliminate quotas or “soft quotas” or “category admissions” (which is what I’ve described) but then you change the character of the school. And you’ll end up resembling … the 1000s of other colleges in the country. Nothing inherently inimical about that – but Cornell has no motivation to blend in. You want complete merit-based admissions? You can’t swing a dead cat without hitting a college that practices it. 96% of the country’s colleges would flip if they receive a 2340 SAT applicant with a 3.9GPA. But that’s the rub — most of those 96% of schools have never even merited a mention on this entire website’s history.

@T26E4 I agree completely with what you have said. I agree that having completely based merit decisions would not allow for the most futuristic, forward-thinking pioneers. Instead, you would have a diversity-lacking, uniform, class of 2400 admits of which a large percentage are Asian.

We need the non-merit part of the application as well. That is why American schools are consistently ranked the best in the world, and schools such as Peking and Tsinghua, and the Indian IITs are not, although they are considerably harder to gain admission to. And that process is trust me, completely meritocratic. The IIT exams are impossible. The SAT is actually a joke compared to them. Seriously check out some IIT questions if you have time.

But back to my point, that is why American schools or on top, or at least partly why. Because the applicants are evaluated holistically. But the problem with that is, what is a good “holistic” candidate? Who is to say that Asian kid you just rejected isn’t a “holistic” candidate? No one but the admissions committees at the top tier schools, of course. And the fact of the matter is, simply a meritocratic system is the optimal, most fair, and standardized way to evaluate applicants, because everyone’s perception of a perfect “well-rounded” applicant, or “hooked” as we would call it, is different. That is why you can have something get into Harvard but not Yale. My case for example…I was waitlisted at Carnegie Mellon with a 15-16% acceptance rate, and accepted at Duke. But alas, there are those rejected to both, accepted to both, and so on. There are infinite number of combinations among the top schools, and the college admissions process is very random. Thus, the problem becomes one of uncertainty.

If I know that Harvard will accept me, and Harvard is my first choice, I wouldn’t apply anywhere else. But one does not have that guarantee, because who knows what Harvard wants? The admission officer at that particular date at that particular time who happened to read your application and felt good that day so decided to admit you. This speaks to the larger concept of why meritocracy is so efficient but not necessarily flawless. A pure meritocracy has its downfalls, as evidenced above. But, alas, it is still definitely the most fair.

And yes, life is not and should not be fair all the times.

In response to the questions of the internationals, I believe that is kind of another controversial topic. Yes, I believe that international students should gain more seats (based on my meritocracy principle). But if you look at the way things are and for what reason they are that way, it makes sense that American universities prioritize American students. That is a very difficult and controversial standpoint though, and to be honest, I am not even really sure what is right, what is fair, or what should be on that front. Hats off to you for bringing that up.

But, when I speak to the problems with the current admissions process, there are a few big ones. As I said before, no one can be sure where they will gain admission to. It is simply just too random, especially if you are part of the “general pool”. And what does that do? That’s right, jack up the number of applicants. People don’t even want to go X school for example, they much rather go to A, B, C, or D. But they apply to X anyways because it is a good school, and they would still definitely get a good education, and it opens up more doors than their instate public. That was the case for me with Duke. It wasn’t one of my top (OMG I love this school) choices, even though I am loving it more with every day. But I applied because I knew getting into HYPSM is tough. So, the problem with this uncertainty is that the number of applicants is jacked up, and every year it gets worse. And every year more people apply. The acceptance rates drop continuously. And when people see the acceptance rate get lower, it just causes people to apply to even more places, and it is cyclical. This process will continuously get worse. And when Harvard receives 100,000 applicants for 1500 spots in its class one day, to some extent they could have picked 3000 of those kids, that would have been basically like the 1800-2000 (80% yield rate) they would have admitted a few years prior, and it will LITERALLY be picking out of a hat. It will just get even more random. That is the biggest problem. And you may think, acceptance rates haven’t dropped that much year to year, but yes they have. If Harvard was 5.9% last year, and is 5.3% this year, every tenth of a percentage point is huge. Just look at it this way. To go from 5% to 2.5%, which is “only a 2.5% drop”, you would need twice as many applicants. So every percentage point when it gets to such low acceptance rates indicates that several thousand more have applied.

It is not because Harvard is getting any better. It is because people are just unsure of their admission decisions evermore. And one day, it will literally be completely random for who is admitted from the top 30% of qualified applicants. And, that, is definitely unfair.

In the end, the really qualified superior students that didn’t get into any of the top tier schools that they applied to will still go on to do something amazing with their lives.

What raises the flag for me is that the OP got rejected outright from an ED. With a legacy status OP should have either been deferred and rejected, or deferred waitlisted and rejected. Either OP did not get the recs that he thinks he did or perhaps his classes weren’t strong enough or something.

^ this is true. I didn’t notice the legacy status. Oftentimes, strong legacy students, if not accepted, are deferred and either waitlisted or offered the transfer option. We still don’t know what the acceptance rate was this year—haven’t seen the numbers yet. Maybe this year was even more competitive. At some point, legacies hold little weight.

@Renomamma here are the numbers for this year! http://cornellsun.com/blog/2015/04/05/cornell-releases-admissions-decisions-for-the-class-of-2019/ Acceptance rate slightly rose from last year’s 14% to 14.9% this year.

Re#12, I don’t know what college OP applied to. Though isolated examples have been reported, the Guaranteed Transfer option is not widely used by CAS or COE. At a CAS info session I attended, we were told that CAS does not like to defer ED candidates to RD, they would rather reject them. The admissions rep said if the candidate would not make it in ED it was highly unlikely they would make it in RD.

Some people feel it makes legacies feel better to be deferred, waitlisted then simply not accepted,stringing them along with a ray of hope all the while.I think it is actually better for them, once the school knows they are not going to admit them, to reject them. It That way it helps them to move on.