Can being "good enough" be...good enough?

Parent Cafe
1

I’m new to the CC community and find it interesting and informative, but occasionally a bit stress-producing. I think that comes from people referring to their 4.0 UW GPA and 2200 SAT as “pretty good.” Help!

As a parent of an only child, I’ve had the time and luxury to do a lot of thinking about what has happened to high school students since I was one many years ago. The college admissions process seems insanely cutthroat to me, and I am already leaning towards encouraging my daughter to apply to some of those lesser-known but excellent schools in lieu of the super competitive ones.

The thing is, she is a really good student. She always has been. She works hard, and her unweighted average tends to hover in the 93 to 95 range. She will be entering the IB diploma program next year. She is a fairly dedicated musician who plays in a local youth orchestra, and she is considering starting a group to do performances at nursing homes and hospitals. Most importantly, she is a really nice person who has a lot of interesting ideas and gets along extremely well with almost everyone she meets.

It is upsetting to me to think that so many college admissions officers might not even consider my daughter because she is not one of these “super students” who score close to 2400 on the SAT, have a perfect 4.0 average, are the president of multiple clubs and organizations at their school, play three varsity sports, and so on.

My husband and I have always believed very strongly in allowing our daughter to have downtime, to just read or watch TV or text with her friends, or even be bored for a while. We think it’s important that she gets a reasonable amount of sleep, and that she spends her teenage years enjoying them, not creating a well-padded college résumé. My daughter and I recently had a conversation about her grades, and she admitted that if she studied harder, maybe she would get mostly 98s instead of 95s, but that she isn’t willing to give up all of her free time and become a study robot to do so. This may have been the stupidest thing in the world to do, but I agreed with her. My worry is that, by not being pushy or competitive or whatever it is so many other parents seem to be (and I mean no offense to anyone so please don’t think I’m directing my comments at anyone in particular), she will wind up at a huge disadvantage when it comes to college applications. I even discussed my laid-back attitude with her high school guidance counselor, and perhaps this was my imagination, but I swear the woman was staring at me like I was crazy. She had a strange frozen smile on her face and it seemed she didn’t know how to respond. Then she said something about how my daughter will “find the right kind of school for you,” as though my daughter was some sort of odd person for not being a crazy driven over achiever who feels she must strive for an Ivy.

I just wanted to share my thoughts and find out if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter. It is a terrible feeling to think that your very bright, kind, high achieving child is still not “good enough” for the system.

2

With admissions being so hyper-competitive…nobody’s “good enough” in the sense that they will be assured of a spot anywhere. Lots of people are qualified, and it sounds like your daughter definitely has the required smarts, but even those 4.0/2400 students don’t get in everywhere (and may not get in anywhere, if they only apply to tippity top schools with 5% acceptance rates). It’s all in the balanced list! There’s no reason not to apply to a reach or two, if she wants to.

3

Oh, of course she will apply to a reach school or two, if that’s what she wants to do and she has a good reason to want to attend those schools other than having an impressive name on her sweatshirt. I guess what I’m trying to say is that it’s difficult being the only person in a very large crowd who is not subscribing to the most commonly held ideas and beliefs. I’m finding it hard to talk about the college search with friends for this reason. All of them seem to want their kids to apply to big-name schools, and of course to attend the most prestigious one that will accept them. It would be nice to find at least a few laid-back people who understand that we are there kid goes to school is probably not highly correlated with how happy and successful they will be in their adult life. My husband and I met in college and it was not a name that would impress anyone, yet both of us are happy and enjoy our careers.

4

“It is upsetting to me to think that so many college admissions officers might not even consider my daughter because she is not one of these “super students” who score close to 2400 on the SAT, have a perfect 4.0 average, are the president of multiple clubs and organizations at their school, play three varsity sports, and so on.”

Admissions officers at PLENTY of colleges admit plenty of NON “super students”.
Just as you have wisely chosen to throttle back the pressure you put on your D, you ALSO have to throttle back your expectation that she will get into a tippy top U. It may happen, but if it does treat it as a gift.
You have to scale back your hopes and NOT be upset, in order for HER to be OK with going to whatever college she is accepted at and decides to go to.

“I am already leaning towards encouraging my daughter to apply to some of those lesser-known but excellent schools in lieu of the super competitive ones.”

Focus FIRST on finding safeties- colleges where she has an excellent chance of acceptance, and she would be happy to go to. Then she can also apply to a few Lottery schools.

Ha she taken the PSAT? Did her score qualify her for NMSF standing in your state? If so, that can open the door to many great colleges and U’s that PAY great students to go there.

5

Hi, lovely post and I agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly. I have sons ages 20 and 17.I work at Valencia College in Orlando, FL which is a “community college” that feeds most of its students to 4-year public schools like UCF although some of our honors students, yes we have a respected honors program, get into elite private schools and many with scholarships.

The path to success and happiness is multiple. Your D or my sons can get there with or without having a degree from an expensive, elite private school. I was completely lost out of high school and neither of my parents even went to college, I was adopted, my dad was in the WW II generation. I’m sharing this for perspective.

I went to Valencia right after high school. Got an AA degree. Lived at home. Saved money. Once I transferred to a 4-year school I was able to compete with the native students. I ended up earning a masters degree in accounting and passing the CPA exam. I had $8,000 of debt. If your D or my sons major in something practical and avoid super high levels of debt to finance their educations, they should be just fine. Some of the public schools now are more than just places to drink, do crazy things and party. The public schools finally got smart and started adding honors colleges and things like that and that allows great students to not have to apologize for going public.

Consider starting at a CC.

Wait for grad school to find the “big ticket” school. My oldest son will probably go to the U. of Miami for grad school. He already has an AA from Valencia and is a junior at FSU. He has a bright futures scholarship and he is exactly what you described your daughter as being. Good or very good. Not exceptional not magnificent but very good. He is going to be just fine vocationally and his major is practical. He doesn’t have many worries right now. There is something to be said for that, I think.

6

i’m not expecting my daughter to get into a “tippy top” university, if what that means is a school where 85-90% of the applicants are rejected. I’m not even sure attending the school like that would be very good for her anyway, given her learning style and personality type. So I certainly won’t be crying into my Cheerios if she doesn’t go to Harvard or Williams, and neither will she. I’m talking more about the feeling created by all of this, and not the college admissions and application processes per se. It’s that feeling of being the one bunny rabbit mom in the jungle full of Tiger moms. By the way, I mean that in a tongue-in-cheek way so I hope that is not offensive to anyone!

And thank you, @GoNoles85; I replied before I saw your comment.

7

yeah, the whole college application business is not like it was in the “good ol’ days” …
It is what it is, and you will have to do what ever it takes to keep your sanity.
That’s what CC is for! We “old timers” are here to help!

8

You sound like a parent looking for schools that will evaluate your daughter as a person as well as a student. If this is the case, you are better off with smaller schools where interviewing is part of the process. It gives you the opportunity to ask them questions as well.

Your daughter has very good stats and she should land in a top university or top liberal arts college.

For my kids, we never once applied to a school that did not interview candidates.

This is no guaranty of acceptance but a school that interviews kids not knowing a thing about their qualifications says a lot about the institution. In every case, we received a handwritten thank you note for visiting the school.

The competition and stress cannot be avoided but at least there are ways to make the process more personal and informative for both the school and student.

9

I was recently thinking of this in terms of rock-climbing. Bear with me, and if analogies aren’t helpful, skip over this post.

In any case, the nirvana of climbing is El Capitan in Yosemite. A few months ago, a couple of climbers did a spectacular free-climb. They were well-prepared, and, truthfully, for them, a lesser challenge would not have cut it. Will it change the rest of their lives? Well, they can know they did it, and it may have increased their confidence, but it does not mean other climbers are not just as good or that other climbers will be less successful. It probably will not significantly change their lives in any outward way.

It’s the same with the NY Times crossword puzzle. If you can consistently finish the puzzle in under an hour, does that mean you read the paper more thoroughly than the next person?

A school fundamentally wants an authentic, balanced, happy student. Beyond that, they want a student who is matched with the culture, pace, pressure, and mission of their school. Once they have the first, they look for the second. The trouble is when students try to “prove” the second (that they can handle the pace, pressure, and mission) by studying to the evaluation metrics, and trying to “outperform” on those metrics. If you don’t fundamentally like the NY Times crossword puzzle, you can still practice doing them and improve your performance so you can show people that you are good at them.

I think if your daughter is the former, and she naturally does the volume of activities at a high enough level (instigating, leading- not just showing up and sitting in the back of the room) that indicate she can handle the pace and pressure of an über-elite school, she MAY get the opportunity to try “climbing El Capitan.” Of course, the range of grades and test scores also need to support this overall picture.

One question not frequently asked is whether the student wants this level of challenge (or “competition”). Much like the NY Times crossword puzzle, some will relish the challenge and some will find it to be torture. There is no reason to take on the challenge if you do not want to- you will have a wonderful and productive life either way.

Often you will see written on CC that going to a certain college is simply for the prestige of having the name of the college on your resume. I do not believe that. College will change you. The challenge may have little outcome on your income or on your life trajectory, but choosing a good fit may be important for the experience itself, and for your personal growth during this high-personal-growth time in your life. It’s not like the experience is all the same but some lucky few get to put the coveted name-brand on their resume.

So, no, being authentic and balanced and her own person is hugely more important than seeking outside validation. But outside validation is measurable, and its importance should not be ignored for being an overall barometer and indicator of suitability for a given environment; a given school.

10

First, I’d like to say that we took the same approach with our D, also an only. In fact I’m pretty sure I once said to her something like “But what if you die when you’re a senior? Then you would have wasted your time” when she worried about not doing more ‘things’ for college. We generally encouraged her to take only classes she was interested in (unless mandated), do only activities that she was interested in, take free periods when possible, treat time with friends and family as important, and get enough sleep.

She is also a good student, and is accepted to three schools she is happy with (not ivies).

People (esp on CC) focus on how hard some schools are to get into, and how certain schools choose students ‘holistically’.

It’s really the other way around. There are thousands of different schools to choose from, whose graduates have gone on to be successful. The hard part is for the student to choose the very very small pool of schools - that she can afford, and that she likes, and that she has varying degrees of likelihood of getting into - which she deems worthy of her interest.

D and I used to joke whenever she (sometimes regretfully) crossed a school off that list that she should write a letter:

“Although you are very strong candidate, I regret to inform you that I can not offer you a place on my list. I’m sure you will be very successful with your other applicants.”

11

You want your child to be happy and well adjusted? What kind of a Mother are you? :slight_smile: I would say that your child is very fortunate and they will find their path and do what ever their interest and passion lead them to. The admissions process can be intense, but it doesn’t have to be. Applying to a well balanced list of schools that address the academic interests of your child and your families financial capability is what I believe you would want to do.

12

There are 3000 colleges in the USA. The colleges you refer to are probably in the top 20 to 50 of those.
There is a college for your daughter, and many of them are excellent colleges!!

13

@michigandermom

This may be my favorite comment ever read here!

14

OP, I certainly agree with you and your parenting style. My kids were strong students - both within the top 10% of their HS classes. But neither of them studied to the exclusion of “having a life.” They sang in the choir, did theatre, ran cross country and worked part-time jobs. They also played video games, hung out with friends and just laid about plenty. A very balanced life. Neither they, nor we as parents, cared about getting into “tippy top” schools. We were lucky that, as Texas residents, our kids had automatic acceptance to state schools. Knowing that they had a great “safety”, made my kids’ senior year relatively stress-free. Neither of them ended up going to UT (because they wanted to leave Texas), but the whole family would have been fine with it.

My advice? Just make sure your D doesn’t get caught up in the college craziness. Reassure her that wherever she goes to college, she will have fun and get a great education. Better to go to a college that fits you, than try to fit yourself in a little box just to appeal some random college.

15

“It is upsetting to me to think that so many college admissions officers might not even consider my daughter because she is not one of these “super students” who score close to 2400 on the SAT, have a perfect 4.0 average, are the president of multiple clubs and organizations at their school, play three varsity sports, and so on.”----> Don’t worry about this. This only exists in the world of CC. Elite colleges reject 4.0 and 2400 student. Just check out the results threads. It’s not all about numbers. Take me for example. I was admitted into Northwestern with a 3.7 GPA and a 1970 on the SAT. They look at each and every student holistically and try to build a student body. I don’t advocate shying away from all elite schools. If she finds one she likes, tell her to go for it. But if she doesn’t, she will be fine. She is clearly very bright. IDK if this has been said, but make sure to research the Colleges That Change Lives schools. Seems like she would be a fit for them :slight_smile:

16

I think the most important part of your post is that your D has had a life, sleeps, has relationships and is happy. What CC has shown me is that there are many kids who have worked their butts off with the EXPECTATION of getting into a top school only to be crushed when they are rejected. Then, they are faced with CC comments about how their college rejections don’t define them. But, HS is over at that point. It’s too late to go back and do it over. It makes me sad for them.

My husband and I have said often that we don’t regret our choices as parents. We did not allow our D to do activity after activity that took her from the family dinner table too much. I often read about how family dinners are so important and endless sports, theatre, etc takes so many kids away from the house from 4-10pm every night. As a family, we have laughed, listened to music together, gone for Sunday drives. My D was NOT over worked and didn’t miss out on relationships while stressing about school. I love how happy she is, how well rested she is and I’m so proud of her acceptances this year (no acceptances to top 10 schools, but some nice matches and a couple of WL at top 10 schools).

I don’t intend to insult anyone out there… please, do what works for your family. But, I feel we have done the best for ours. Good luck to you and your D! There are SO MANY good schools out there. We need to stop thinking about the top 10 or 25. They are just a drop in the bucket and no guarantee of success in life… but then, what is success? Happiness sounds pretty good to me. But, that may be for another post at another time.

17

I think that you have a healthy attitude.

However college matching is a process.

Admissions officers are people. They have emotions, make mistakes, have biases, and have all of the other imperfections that come with being human.

Your D might fare just fine in competitive admissions. With your help, she will create a balanced well thought out list. Come May 1 of senior year, she will have committed to some college. She will have rejected others (that’s why you want 2 safeties - to reject one!). She will be a young woman unrecognizable from to the kid you see now at dinner time.

One thing that is often overlooked on these boards, but we’ve found to be almost universally true.

After the process is over, and students have settled on their colleges, most are immensely happy with their destinations.

18

It is probably as good a time as a ever to have a reality adjustment. College seems so abstract until jr year. Her PSAT with some prep at 175 probably is a reasonable indicator of her potential scores. Have you got an unlimited budget? That probably makes things harder in some ways because she won’t be chasing merit. Does she know how to read common data sets?

19

I’m with you! We’re starting to form D’s college list and there are a few stretch (ok, super-stretch) schools at the top of it. D’s best friend “J” is practically killing herself to do all the “right” things, including studying all hours of the night and constantly on the go from one thing to another. I told D, you may not get into one of these top schools, but J is killing herself and she may or may not get in. It’s not worth it to make yourself sick for merely the CHANCE to get into one of these schools. Sanity and a truly balanced life need to count for something.

20

I’m totally with you, @IBviolamom. I look at what the high-achieving students around me—in what can easily be described as a non-hyper-stats-obsessed, relatively mellow school district!—and see insanity.

No, strike that—I look at their parents (occasionally including, I’m sad to say, me) and see insanity.

At some point it has to stop. At some point we have to be willing to say that we’re not going to play the game.

But you know what? Marketing works—and sometimes it’s hard to push back against that, you know?