<p>I'm struggling to choose a major that enables me to do something I enjoy while still being able to pay the bills.</p>
<p>yes, in environmental consulting or gov work. Market is still good. Make sure you take plenty of science/lab classes, and try to do some concentrated research work and/or do a senior honors/thesis if possible.</p>
<p>Yes, you can get a job. Yes, it’ll pay less on average than almost any other science.</p>
<p>Or if you want to do a lot of chem/bio/geography and get an advanced degree in climatology (which I hear is an in-demand field) that could be a way to pay the bills (if that’s where your interests lie).</p>
<p>Thanks for the input, I don’t think climatology is really my thing though…</p>
<p>what similar majors should I consider that would pay a little better but still deal with solving and studying environmental issues/ ecosystems??</p>
<p>Biology and Chemistry and some types of Geology are kind of similar. I’m combining my International Relations major with an Enviro Policy secondary major if that helps at all. Just try and find another interest that may overlap somewhere is the advice I could give.</p>
<p>from an environmental consulting standpoint, the 3 most common science majors we hire are biology, geology, and chemistry, with bio & geo representing the most out of the 3. Generalist env science majors are probably 4th. Reason why we tend to hire more of the conventional natural science majors over env science is that, generally, those natural sciences provide a concentrated study in one field, with exposure to some deeper research/experimentation usually, relative to the generalist approach. Not to say some env sci programs don’t provide that also, but less so across the universe of school programs. [we do hire env science majors]</p>
<p>I’m a bit biased because I am a geologist, but I think if starting salary between entry geo, bio & chem was the main criterion, you’d be best off with geo. Geo’s don’t necessarily ‘need’ to go back to grad school for env consulting, but its more the rule for bio’s & chem’s.</p>
<p>If you target env consulting as a possible future career going in as a science major, I’d advise my kid to major in geo, then bio, but take some courses in other sciences as well. Behoove you to become a good writer, and take econ and, if available, env law. Gold star if you get through chemistry (no matter what the major) to organic 1. A working knowledge of chemistry is important to virtually all environmental problems, but one doesn’t necessarily need to major in it, unless thats your passion.</p>
<p>Papa Chicken, which schools would you say are strongest with biology from an environmental standpoint? Also, is it better to get a “general” biology degree or to specialize in, say, wildlife biology, entomology, etc? </p>
<p>Also, I’ve heard GIS is in demand . . . Is that true?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>So I am getting that a Geology degree can land me a decent-paying job as an environmental consultant without a masters?</p>
<p>Sounds good!</p>
<p>What are the best schools for this degree that I can get in with a 3.83 weighted GPA and a 2150+ SAT???</p>
<p>I’m not sure if taking up to organic will be beneficial from EVS’s perspective? I’m not speaking from EVS’s consulting perspective but I know some schools don’t allow students to take organic chemistry until you have taken inorganic and even some other ones (i.e. organic chem is like 300 level).</p>
<p>I still want to agree with Papa Chicken for making a good point on taking other sciences and even econ. I know that my college’s EVS major is interdisciplinary that takes classes in history (Environmental History which is like HIS247), philosophy (Ethics in Environment), biology (Field Biology) and obviously, EVS studies. My best advice is to follow what Papa Chicken said, take other sciences, and add some non-science classes that still help you in the field. I personally recommend ethics/law because that’ll be handy I think.</p>
<p>I also do a lot of hiring for an environmental consulting firm and I have a different view than PapaChicken. For me, geologists are a dime a dozen. I rarely will hire one right out of school. An environmental science degree, or better yet environmental engineering is what I’m looking for. Things I look for are strong writing skills, and computer skills. You should be very proficient with spreadsheets, databases and various software tools of the trade to be marketable. While the fun part of being an environmental scientist is the field work, if you want to progress in your career (and salary growth) you need to be able to analyze the data, be capable of doing engineering calculations and statistical analysis of the data, draw conclusions, and most importantly be able to write concisely and coherently.</p>
<p>I don’t know what the labor market will be like in four years but right now water resource management and energy management are some of the most highly sought after specialties. It wouldn’t hurt to get some solid lab skills but they certainly aren’t necessary- there is a world of environmental policy, advocacy and consulting that has little to know “science” involved in the day to day work.</p>
<p>btw, don’t stop at first semester organic chemistry, if you take second semester, you will be eligible for a diversity of options should your interests change eg. toxicology phd, md/do, industrial chem etc</p>
<p>runningmom-- agree with what you are saying largely…I was trying the compare the ‘science’ degrees, and of course, env engineering (civil & chem too to a slightly lesser degree) is tops on our hiring list. All I’m trying to say is that an env science degree, to my firm, may be just fine, but those programs are a bit more variable across the universe of schools in providing the depth of science than more convention natural science majors. And my firm, perhaps more so than others, needs depth of science. [I agree that if the firm is a small phase 1 shop for instance, geos are a dime a dozen and depth of any degree matters much less.] We have to either know the ES program, or have a close look at the student’s transcript.</p>
<p>So, in hiring, we first figure out what ‘need’ we are filling…may require a bio major, maybe env science or geo will do, etc. Once a candidate passes the technical proficiency test (good grades, good curriculum), then the hiring decision comes down to all the other things…communication skills (being able to listen & talk, writing), other workplace skills (e.g., computer like GIS applications, Autocad for design engineers), and fitting into the company culture. That last piece, fitting the culture, can only be judged completely face to face.</p>
<p>Like runningmom, most of our hiring is with experienced candidates, where the experience, not the academic pedigree, matter most. We began doing more entry-level (undergraduate) recruiting a few years ago to inject some young blood into the organization and to push systematic organic growth that was less driven on opportunistic project-need hiring. [With hiring entry undergrads comes the realization that many, especially the ‘good’ ones will be going back to grad school.] That’s a program I lead & I get out to many many schools to attract & interview students. What we target is first the caliber of the school…for engineers, we target universities with top-flight engineering schools and a strong env engineering department, and for scientists, we largely look at top liberal arts institutions that have strong science offerings in general. In essence, the colleges & universities are doing some selection for us. Certainly, other firms do their hiring differently than we do.</p>
<p>So my advice to aspiring environmental science students is 1st get into the best academic situation you can for an area (i.e., major) that truly interests you…challenging yourself is #1 in my book. Do a senior thesis or qualify for senior honors if offered. Next, make sure your major curriculum gives you depth in your science (plenty of exposure to research, experimentation, etc.), then seek science breadth in other env-related departments which would include more than the minimum of chemistry for the non-chemistry major. Seek out other courses that make you improve & practice your communication skills…e.g., humanities and social science classes…and make you more appreciative of the world around you to boot. Take econ & env law/policy. Likewise, find some experiences that will help you develop some leadership skills. Finally, show some achievement in all of the above…one doesn’t have to be perfect in everything, but the old adage that its best to be good at a few than mediocre at many, is certainly true.</p>
<p>Naturally-- your question is very broad…can you pin it down a bit for me? There are many great programs out there.</p>
<p>This is my perception, and it’s not that different from what Papa Chicken is suggesting…</p>
<p>There isn’t a discipline known as environmental science. There are scientists using disciplinary tools from multiple disciplines and applying them to specific problems.</p>
<p>As a result of this, rigorous training in any of the major science disciplines will not only make you a more versatile scientist/candidate, it will not only make it more likely that you learned proper depth and skills in an area to be an effective scientist, but it will also make you just as prepared as someone who specifically studied environmental science because you’ll just be applying a translatable skill to a specific set of problems.</p>
<p>At Brown, we offer both Environmental Science (which is a physical science concentration, an Sc.B. is awarded) and Environmental Studies (which has a science and policy component).</p>
<p>I guess one very basic check is whether the school is offering environmental science as an Sc.B. and whether they’re counting it amongst their physical sciences or not.</p>
<p>well put modestmelody. As an employer, I must take the extra step when evaluating an env science major to assess if they’ve taken enough (lab) sciences (of what I deem to be the ‘right’ sciences) to actually be sufficient as an entry ‘scientist.’ Often there is latitude in these programs, so a close inspection is almost always warranted. Less so with natural science majors…again coming from a prospective employer. Curricula for the standard natural sciences (bio, chem, geo) usually always have a set minimum of lab courses (whether BS or BA, some LACs only award BA’s even with loads of science) of a type adequately described by the major name for resume screening purposes, so I need to check those resumes less on a first pass. Bottom line, some Env Science programs do produce the types of graduates we can & want to hire, but we have to dig deeper into their curriculum when we screen, which perhaps other employers might not take the time to do…plenty of other natural science majors out there competing.</p>
<p>Environmental ‘studies’ program require even more scrutiny at the screening phase, as many have a science track and a policy track, some just a policy/social science focus. The major’s name doesn’t help sufficiently describe what we want. So, if we wanted a scientist to do wetlands assessments for example, I’d have to figure out if the Env Studies major (1) was on the science track and (2) took enough of the right sciences, etc…as part of the screening process, or we could just pull out the bio major resumes from the pile! On the other hand, we do, definitely, take the time to assess and hire environmental studies majors because those with the right science coursework often have a well-rounded perpective of enviromental issues from economic and societal angles, which is pertinent in consulting.</p>
<p>Sorry about being kind of vague, Papa Chicken. I guess the problem is that I am kind of unsure what direction to take with my college (and career) choices. Right now I’m in a natural resources management at a community college and a lot of my classmates come from hunting/fishing/rural backgrounds and know exactly what they want to do, be it forestry or wildlife biology or whatever. And I just do not have that certainty or that background. I enjoy field sampling, etc . . . but I also enjoy living in an urban area. I enjoy being outdoors, but if it’s snowing I would rather be crunching data indoors. (I have trouble with extremely cold weather.) So I’m trying to figure out if there are job options out there that “fit” me. I’m also looking around for something to double major in after I transfer, to be more competitive as a job-seeker. Right now I’m tending towards wildlife biology and that seems to be insanely competitive, which makes me nervous.</p>
<p>(Thanks for mentioning Environmental Studies by the way, I’ve always wondered what the difference is between that and Environmental Science.)</p>
<p>Naturally…hmmm…</p>
<p>thanks for the context. Let me start with your 2nd question first: “is it better to get a “general” biology degree or to specialize in, say, wildlife biology, entomology, etc?” Keep in mind this perspective is from an environmental consultant… there are lots of other types of organizations that hire biologists, perhaps with different views.</p>
<p>For those folks who already know that they have a passion for herpetology, or fisheries, or terrestrial vegetation, for instance, sure, one can specialize a bit at the undergraduate level. However, for those unsure, I think its best to absorb a broader array of course topics. Most specialization can be achieved at the graduate level, and in my experience, most biologists who do consulting go on to at least get a masters. That said, if we have a need at hiring time for an undergrad-level biologist to help us with fisheries field work, we’ll be looking more favorably at resumes with some course work in that area. Bit of the Goldilocks paradox here. And, btw, wildlife management is quite popular (who doesn’t want to study the creatures around us?), but because of the great supply of resumes in this area, the job competition is pretty stiff, too…many wildlife biologists work for government agencies…for our work, we tend to hire more bio’s with undergrad and/or grad background in aquatic sciences, wetlands, toxicology, ecology, etc. Yes, wildlife and other terrestrial critters (again, everyone and their brother wants to be in that world) are the subjects of some of our studies, but there’s more consulting action (for us at least) in wet things. </p>
<p>Second question: “which schools would you say are strongest with biology from an environmental standpoint?” Short answer is that there are many many great programs out there. Off the top of my head, we like to hire from places like Va Tech, Clemson, Texas A&M and Cornell. Pretty safe to say that any state’s public ‘land-grant’ institution will have a decent ag/bio bent. [Land-grant institutions were funded by the feds to support the state’s agriculture; usually one public university per state have ag schools…these are typically the home for wildlife & NR majors, among others; for instance, for Virginia, Va Tech is the state’s land-grant school, whereas the flagship UVa is not, to my understanding; Cornell is one of the few ‘private’ land grant schools.] But there are numerous other schools, including private universities & LACs, that have wonderful bio programs with emphases in environmental & ecology. As an example, Colgate has a Natural Science program which is mostly bio & some geo, but focuses on marine & freshwater science…predominantly bio, but great program for us. My advice is to start doing some heavy web-based shopping to get familiar with who offers what.</p>
<p>I hope this discussion helps you a bit. Hard to summarize in a few words!</p>
<p>Key advice , though, is to study what you like…strategizing too much can backfire in later years from a job satisfaction standpoint.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info.
Papa Chicken and RunningMom, and others-- any suggestions for schools on the West Coast that are doing good stuff in Environmental fields?</p>
<p>Karen-- again, pretty wide open question…but here’s just a few that come to mind off the top of my head. Berkeley & Stanford, of course. UC Banta Barbara has some fantastic programs, very progressive. UC Davis…big on the ag side. U Wash. I hear Evergreen has some good stuff going. For the privates, beside Stanford, I’m partial to Pomona’s Env Analysis major (can have a science emphasis). There are many more!</p>