<p>OP, you really need to try to talk him into Sac State. I’ve always been a big fan of the community college to transfer option. But look what’s happened in the past couple of years: The UCs cut freshman enrollment as they raised tuition by 35%, cut classes, raised class sizes, and furloughed professors. As students fell out of the UC system, that put pressure on the CSUs. They already had their own problems with budget cuts and were now being asked to absorb the kids who couldn’t get into, or couldn’t afford, UC. Now we have the announcement last week that CSU is cutting enrollment next year by 10,000 students. So where are the casualties of the overflowing and underfunded CSU system ending up? At the CCs, which announced today that they could be turning away 400,000 students next year. Long story short, all of the pressure in California higher education is downward. Don’t let him start at the bottom rung.</p>
<p>bluebayou, students aren’t shut out of classes because of laziness or procrastination, as you seem to imply. Here’s how it works at American River CC in Sacramento: Students are assigned a specific time slot to register online. At the appointed time, they may log on and begin attempting to register. It’s a race; the time slot’s allotment of general ed classes can fill up within seconds. One student I know started trying to log on 2 minutes before his appointed time and kept trying every few seconds until he was allowed in; he felt an extra minute or even a few seconds might make a difference. Even logging on at literally the opening bell, he was closed out of two classes.</p>
<p>@RSBuletz, my daughter is in the same (very leaky) boat.</p>
<p>As I understand it, without the tax extensions, the cuts for fall 2011 will likely be</p>
<p>UCs --$1B
CSUs --$1B
CCCs --$800M</p>
<p>Sigh. My daughter (graduating hs in June) was denied at UCSC, her top choice, and within the last week, decided that she would attend Cabrillo College for 2 years and transfer to UCSC. This was looking like a very good option–until the news Tuesday about no public vote on the tax extensions and the press release from the Chancellor of the CA community colleges about the $800M cut next fall. Fees will likely go up from $26/unit to $66/unit and they plan to cut 400,000 from 112 schools. Cabrillo expects a $10M cut and elimination of over 3000 new admissions in the fall. They don’t start accepting applications until next Monday, April 4.</p>
<p>Daughter is accepted at SFSU and still waiting to hear from Cal Poly Pomona. She is not excited about either – we’ve heard about many frustrated students at SFSU taking 5-6 years to graduate because classes are crowded and/or not available–even though some are going to SF City College to try to pick up those not being offered. With the new info on the budget cuts, I can also imagine Cal Poly Pomona sticking to applicants from their local area, especially those whose majors are impacted. That would mean a denial for my daughter.</p>
<p>She knows what she wants to do (pre-med to become an optometrist) and is pretty focused so I really don’t worry about her falling through the cracks or floundering and not getting to the point of transfer at a CCC. We were just getting comfortable with Plan B for getting into UCSC. The rug is once again pulled out from under us… :-P</p>
<p>So the general concensus is to choose a 4-yr school over the CCC-transfer-to-UC route at this point? Even a CSU where there has been evidence of problems before this next huge cut hits it? What do folks think are the chances that the TAG will crumble in the next 2-3 years so there will no longer be a guarantee of transfer?</p>
<p>Can we get a list of the CA legislators who have children in college and find out where they are going? Wonder if any are in CA public schools or if they all go out of state?</p>
<p>TAG is already crumbling. The two biggest UCs, Berkeley and UCLA do not have it and UCSD has said the minimum GPA for TAG will be 3.5 starting in Fall 2012. Just from reading the posts on the UC Transfer site it is obvious that a lot of the types of students who are getting into UCSD through TAG now are going to be denined starting next year. Nearly all of the other UCs are expected to follow UCSD’s lead resulting in only a relatively small number of the strongest CCC students being eligible for TAG. The CSUs never had TAG and are becoming much more competitive for CCC transfers. I am afraid we are entering a new era in which even fewer of the students who start at a CCC will ever receive a Bachelors or advanced degree.</p>
<p>Its only going to get worse before it gets better and I suspect that no one will be able to anticipate when Californias higher educational woes will subside. With all that our children have had to endure throughout their High School years, now our California college students are facing varying degrees of uncertainty amongst all systems of higher education. The UC system was always intended to offer acceptances to the majority of A+/ B+ students (and others), with the deliberate focus of offering acceptance to qualified California student residents. The Cal State system, was always intended to offer acceptances to the majority of students who met their requirements and provided a less expensive alternative to the UC price tag, often attracting and matriculating students who chose Cal State schools over UC institutions. The private colleges (many with religious foundations), offered unique curriculum and class size that appealed to their interested applicants, and of course, the community colleges were a wonderful option for students wanting to save monies while completing their general education requirements. Community college also offered some students a wonder gift, a second chance to improve their academic standing over prior High School performance. </p>
<p>Students in California are being forced to endure the negative financial impact across all layers of the process and all schools in the State; from admissions, tuition hikes, course offerings, and graduation rates. The state budget crisis is not a direct swipe at the UC or Cal State systems exclusively, as the budget crisis affects every single college and university in California! The private institutions (although not receiving state funding), are allegedly bursting at the seams with applicants (some who may never have considered applying) as many students scramble for viable options for attending college in California. UCSD, recently adjusted their TAG requirement from 3.0 to 3.5. Youve got to know that the other UC schools will most likely follow suit? And now yesterday, the LA Times article says that perhaps as many as 400,000.00 community college students will not be admitted this fall. If that projection is realized, almost half a million students will be turned away from enrollment at a CCCs. How were any of those students to have anticipated and planned for such an immediate horrific loss of opportunity on such a state-wide scale? </p>
<p>There will be exceptions based on financial ability, but clearly, we California parents can no longer benignly recommend attendance at the local Community College as a prudent pathway towards a four-five year plan for the undergraduate degree. Here on CC, any student who doesnt have stellar High School stats, is sometimes told- almost cavalierly, Just go to CC because you need to work harder. I applaud the tremendous stats that some CC kids have displayed on this site, and feel so proud for all of them that theyve worked so hard to give themselves an opportunity to attend their college of choice. We have to encourage all of our children to look beyond the top 25/top 50…or CCC bound and do some research into the more than 4000 colleges and universities in this country, and find a School that will guarantee something MORE than more ridiculously competitive admissions, fewer classes, and a higher price tag with more financial uncertainty to come. There are schools across this nation that will GLADLY accept students with 2.90 GPAs who didnt go to a foreign country during summer break to built a water filtration system for hundreds of families, or students with perfect GPAs and test scores and are regularly published in national periodicals. California Parents: We have to start thinking about short term solutions that may place our children where they need to be to weather this enormous budget storm. And to our Kids: With so many schools in our country and so many different opportunities at each, take the time to see what other merit opportunities exist outside of California?! Explore beyond the Schools for our nations top elite students, and find schools outside of our State that provide viable academic alternatives! Californias budget woes and the legislature that has to sort through the mire, seem to have forgotten the most important fiscal responsibility on its long list of priorities
EDUCATION !</p>
<p>Your post was one of the best summary descriptions of what an absolute abyss has become of education in California.</p>
<p>The CC’s are definitely not the option that they once were.</p>
<p>I know far too many students exploring out of state options. </p>
<p>The whole California higher education system is in a state of decline because it will be continue to be underfunded for years to come. This snowball is running downhill and the ones MOST affected will be those in the CC system, who often have the fewest resources. </p>
<p>It’s tragic. Each day, just getting more so.</p>
<p>LilMamma, you crystalized exactly what I was perceiving when I read the LA Times article, and this fear for the future of the CCC’s welled up. They will be the haven of last resort for those with no other options more than they ever have. </p>
<p>Thanks for all the responses so far. My wife and I agreed last night that we need to guide him with an iron fist in a velvet glove toward making the choice of one of the two 4-year unis. As fun as hanging out with his buddies for another couple years while knocking of his GE’s at a high GPA might sound, that doesn’t look to be realistic plan in the current environment. Now to get him to see that given his brother went this route successfully.</p>
<p>RSBuletz, Reasoning with an 18 year old is not always easy since it will be a couple more years before he starts to realize that you may know more than he does. I think I have finally gotten through to my son and he seems willing to go to CSU Sacramento if our appeal of his denial succeeds. What worked for your son’s older brother is just not operative anymore. As you know I was at first willing to forget about Sac State and let my son try the CCC to UC route when he was first denied but the current reality is that it will only work for the most dedicated and focused students who are willing to spend five years in community college, get a job or do something productive during the terms when they can not get into any classes and deal with being at best a part time student for years on end without losing their motivation to graduate from college. That is just not my son. My S1 was just like my S2 during high school and his first year at Sac State was rough and I was bringing home every weekend to get him through Calculus I. However, he has matured, really buckled down this semester, works hard and is getting good grades without help from me in Calculus III and Calculus based Physics. If S2 does get into Sac State we will rent an apartment near campus where they can live together and hopefully S1 can ride herd on S2 to make sure he does his homework and studies for his tests. Since Physics majors take basically the same lower division courses as Geology majors S1 would hopefully be in a position to show S2 the ropes.</p>
<p>Everything said here is completely correct. I am a student at one of the bigger ccc in southern California and it is almost impossible to get into classes. I have had to take some classes at other cc’s in order to be able to transfer in two years (which I hopefully will be doing the coming fall). I was sometimes stuck with professors who have no idea how to teach. On top of that, students who need to take remedial classes have no chance in transferring in 2 years. I am just happy that I’ll be finished with cc before these budget cuts begin. </p>
<p>However, there are ways to get into classes before the other students. My cc has a scholar’s program which allows the students to enroll before everyone else. But they are required to take more advanced courses (which from my own experiences are not much more difficult). </p>
<p>There is a way to view this as a positive event. It is my understanding that statewide, only about 25% of cc students ever actually complete their degree. At heavily taxpayer-subsidized tuition rates, cc is a HUGE waste of taxpayer dollars in the majority of cases. Many of those students should not be there in the first place, and at $26 per credit, it is way too easy to drop classes or drop out. The system needs to prioritize admission for students like the OP’s - ie, students who are admitted to 4-year Us but want to save money and transfer, rather than admitting all-comers who are there because they haven’t figured out something better to do with their time.</p>
<p>My CC has this stifling sense of defeat and apathy (my friends and I actually call it the “college of your lost hopes and dreams”)– if I were a full-time student I doubt I’d succeed. Coupled with your misgivings about his friends and the huge amounts of budget cuts, I’d go for the CSU with intent to transfer (unless it’s SJSU or East Bay. Those are just slightly more expensive CC’s – seriously, my club does events with them, they have the exact same mentality). Or the OOS.</p>
<p>What I still don’t understand is why anyone thinks that jucos will be hit harder on their budget than will the Cal States. The Cal States spend millions on remediation, just like the jucos. At some Cal States, 90% of entering Frosh require remediation.</p>
<p>Problems abound everywhere. Getting into classes is difficult. The only question for the OP is whether getting courses at Cal State Sac is easier/harder than getting classes at local juco, particularly if that local juco offers an Honors program.</p>
<p>The CC’s are going to have to reorganize the entire system. There are going to have to be higher standards for admission. Right now, all that’s required is a high school diploma or GED. There should be a GPA/SAT floor set so that the CCs would be for serious students working toward a degree. </p>
<p>And the price tag of $26 per unit is too low. It’s not unreasonable for the taxpayers to expect students to pick up more of the cost of their education.</p>
<p>@UCBChemEGrad, my older son is a Geology major at CSU Sacramento and he has to take essentially all the same lower division courses as Engineering majors. So far he has been able to get all his classes but not without some difficulty. He got into Calculus I off of the waiting list and had to postpone taking Physics by one semester since the class was full and he could not get off of the waiting list. He did get it the following semester without too much trouble but by then he had higher registration priority. </p>
<p>While it is certainly going to get more difficult to get into classes at CSUs and UCs because of the budget cuts I think it will still be more manageable than at CCCs. CSUs and UCs have admission standards and only accept a limited number of students in each major so they have some control over the number of students who would be trying to take particular courses. Anyone with a high school diploma or GED can register for courses at a CCC so there is no way for them to estimate or control the number of possible students attempting to register for a course. For example, Sac State can estimate that they have enough professors and classroom space to offer Calculus I to 300 students. If about 80 seats will be needed for Math, Physics, Chemistry and Geology majors, they know that they can only accept about 220 students into the College of Engineering. No such control measures exist for the CCCs. It will be chaos with most students lucky to register for even a single course in impacted majors at CCCs.</p>
<p>The California Legislature sets community college fees, which will be going up this fall, I believe, to about $36 a unit. If you think they should go up more, then write to your representative. One of the three missions of the community college, besides transfer and vocational training, is basic skills. About 75% of the students at my community college test into basic skills in math and English. If we do not provide a higher education opportunity for these students, we will suffer the consequences down the road, with higher rates of incarceration, welfare, and people living below the poverty line. A lot of them are first-generation college students who never took the SAT. They never even heard of it in many cases. (And I teach in an affluent suburban community, so I can imagine what it is like in the inner cities and rural areas…) Education needs to be a priority in this state (all states) to raise the standard of living for everyone, or we will all be dragged down…I think we are seeing this already… </p>
<p>Yes, and Transocean and other American companies have “corporate headquarters” in small Swiss villages to avoid paying ANY taxes (as seen on “60 Minutes”), and banks and other companies are raking in record profits…but we can’t fund higher education. Just my little socialist rant…we will pay for this. We are paying for this.</p>
<p>OP, Southern Utah U seems like a really good option. Cedar City is a nice town. How about taking a little trip with your S to Cedar City over Spring break? You can visit the southern Utah National Parks, the north shore of the Grand Canyon, and visit the dorms, classes, and professors at SUU. He might just like it a lot.</p>
<p>We visited in February. He likes the campus because he wants somewhere with trees and four seasons. Thought it somewhat small, but OK. At the time there was a chance that one of his buddies would also attend, but that option fell away. COA between Sac State and SUU would only be about $5K different even as out of state because R&B is so much less at SUU. If he had gotten WUE discount SUU would have been less than a Cal State by about $3K, but alas no such luck. I like the campus because at only 7,000 undergrads I think he will thrive more. </p>
<p>We are going to visit Sac State in about two weeks during HS spring break (though son isn’t aware of that yet as we haven’t had our “come to jesus” sit down yet). Intents to enroll are due May 1, so we shall see.</p>
<p>As an aside, the mileage difference between Sac State and SUU from our home in So Cal is 5 miles.</p>
<p>"Basic skills in math and English are taught in K-12. </p>
<p>Community college is (or should be) for those kids who have worked hard and mastered those skills already."</p>
<p>Not according to the Mission Statement from the Chancellor’s Office:
“Community colleges provide basic skills education, workforce training and courses that prepare students for transfer to four-year universities. The colleges also offer opportunities for personal enrichment and lifelong learning.” </p>
<p>“The California State University system accepts the top one-third of the states high-school graduates, but nearly six out of 10 entering freshmen in 2002 needed remedial instruction in either English or math.” (Pacific Research Institute)</p>
<p>That’s sixty percent of CSU students…who used to come to the community college for the remedial classes…</p>
<p>There are dreams, and then there is reality. Yes, of course they should have learned basic skills in high school. And yet many come to college unable to write a paragraph or do basic arithmetic. I am not joking. Arithmetic, not algebra or calculus. A paragraph, not an essay or a research paper. It’s sad. In fact, it’s a national tragedy.</p>